[ShonTron]

More GO service would be welcomed partially because of the quality of the current monopoly bus service.

GO (the province) would have to buy the contract of Stagecoach/Coach Canada (the Kitchener-Hamilton operator) and Aboutown (the Guelph-Hamilton operator). I think it's about time and money well spent. If we're doing that, I'd also buy out Greyhound's Guelph-Kitchener contract and either give it to GO or let GRT and Guelph figure out their own service.

 

[TOareaFan]

More GO service would be welcomed partially because of the quality of the current monopoly bus service.

GO (the province) would have to buy the contract of Stagecoach/Coach Canada (the Kitchener-Hamilton operator) and Aboutown (the Guelph-Hamilton operator). I think it's about time and money well spent. If we're doing that, I'd also buy out Greyhound's Guelph-Kitchener contract and either give it to GO or let GRT and Guelph figure out their own service.

Question for mpd618 does this work? Replacing a few private monopolies with a government monopoly? I guess what I am asking is are you looking for public owned transit or an end to monopolies?

 

[mpd618]

GO (the province) would have to buy the contract of Stagecoach/Coach Canada (the Kitchener-Hamilton operator) and Aboutown (the Guelph-Hamilton operator). I think it's about time and money well spent. If we're doing that, I'd also buy out Greyhound's Guelph-Kitchener contract and either give it to GO or let GRT and Guelph figure out their own service.

GO Transit is not actually bound by the Ontario Highway Transport Board, so it could choose to ignore those concessions. Though being part of the province, it's easy to see why they don't want to interfere with the OHTB negotiations.

Question for mpd618 does this work? Replacing a few private monopolies with a government monopoly? I guess what I am asking is are you looking for public owned transit or an end to monopolies?

I'm not sure I have a full answer to what a better inter-city framework in Ontario would be - and that subject easily deserves its own thread. I'd like to see more of a role for public intercity transit, and I don't think the current private monopoly system serves the public very well.

My point, more plainly, was that the public opinion of Greyhound service between Kitchener and Toronto is very low, and that the general attitude towards GO Transit is much more favourable.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't suppose with the 401 widening, the MTO has had the vision to incorporate bus-only or HOV lanes into it? There should be HOV all along the 401 from to Kitc to Newc so transit buses become a viable, fast, and reliable alternative. Nothing will get people out of their cars faster than sitting on the 401 bumper to bumper while a transit bus flies by. This is why many take the buses from White Rock to Vancouver/Canada Line.............there are bus-only lanes all along the route including before the tunnel in each direction so the tunnel is a breeze for the buses. Taking the bus is almost always faster and a lot more reliable.

A bus-only lane should also be built for GO and the TTC from Miss/Egl to Spadina ext.

One thing that has always struck me as weird is why there is not GO service between Brantford and Hamilton.

 

[mpd618]

I don't suppose with the 401 widening, the MTO has had the vision to incorporate bus-only or HOV lanes into it? There should be HOV all along the 401 from to Kitc to Newc so transit buses become a viable, fast, and reliable alternative.

The preferred design in the EA for 401 widening between Hespeler-Halton includes two HOV lanes. (There's two different UT threads about the project.)

 

[nfitz]

innsertnamehere mentioned on the Spadina subway thread that Metrolinx was in the process of purchasing the connecting rail corridor that Obico Yards were on.

Which raises an interesting thought. If Metrolinx were to purchase that, and upgrade it, would it make sense to run Milton service through there, and bypass Kipling station, The Junction, etc. Not sure it would be any faster or slower ... but you could probably spend a lot less then on increasing service on the Milton line, with less CP track to upgrade. There'd be a couple of tight curves though ...

 

[innsertnamehere]

^ as I said I have a feeling its for the Obico yard, which CP probably sold in a package deal. The yard will probably be upgraded to hold additional lakeshore and Milton trains. All wild speculation though, I just heard that they were buying the corridor.

 

[Voltz]

innsertnamehere mentioned on the Spadina subway thread that Metrolinx was in the process of purchasing the connecting rail corridor that Obico Yards were on.

Which raises an interesting thought. If Metrolinx were to purchase that, and upgrade it, would it make sense to run Milton service through there, and bypass Kipling station, The Junction, etc. Not sure it would be any faster or slower ... but you could probably spend a lot less then on increasing service on the Milton line, with less CP track to upgrade. There'd be a couple of tight curves though ...

The south end of those tracks curve to the west, not the east, but but the land required to build a curve to the east is just a industrial yard which I guess could be expropriated without much difficulty, but there would be the issue of increased traffic on the Lakeshore corridor that may require upgrades if the Milton trains are diverted there. That section of track already has to handle GO and Via traffic going to and from their yards in addition to frequent GO service.

 

[TOareaFan]

innsertnamehere mentioned on the Spadina subway thread that Metrolinx was in the process of purchasing the connecting rail corridor that Obico Yards were on.

Which raises an interesting thought. If Metrolinx were to purchase that, and upgrade it, would it make sense to run Milton service through there, and bypass Kipling station, The Junction, etc. Not sure it would be any faster or slower ... but you could probably spend a lot less then on increasing service on the Milton line, with less CP track to upgrade. There'd be a couple of tight curves though ...

I am not up on what tracks those are so this is a real basic question.....if you bypass Kipling would the Milton line not have a connection to the BD subway at all then? If so, does that not challenge the idea of networking and connectivity?

 

[innsertnamehere]

It spurs off of the lakeshore west corridor right before the train yard and meets up with milton just west of Kipling.

What it does do is create an interesting situation where GO can run a "crosstown" service from lakeshore across the CP mainline.

 

[nfitz]

I am not up on what tracks those are so this is a real basic question.....if you bypass Kipling would the Milton line not have a connection to the BD subway at all then? If so, does that not challenge the idea of networking and connectivity?

It would. On the other hand, the ridership that uses Kipling station is minimal. Also, there's no reason you couldn't at some point extend the BD line further west, and build an interchange station then. BD has to cross the Milton line somewhere if it goes far enough.

 

[salsa]

It would. On the other hand, the ridership that uses Kipling station is minimal. Also, there's no reason you couldn't at some point extend the BD line further west, and build an interchange station then. BD has to cross the Milton line somewhere if it goes far enough.

There were proposals to extend the BD line to Dixie a while ago.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It would. On the other hand, the ridership that uses Kipling station is minimal. Also, there's no reason you couldn't at some point extend the BD line further west, and build an interchange station then. BD has to cross the Milton line somewhere if it goes far enough.

The bring BD west, but where would be best?

 

[gweed123]

Interesting idea re: diverting the Milton line. Yes, it would mean Kipling would be removed from service as a GO station, but like I've mentioned before, and this would only make it more appealing, is to build an integrated transit hub and yard at Honeydale. That would be west of where the Milton line would veer south, and would have more convenient access for MiWay.

This may also improve the chances of the Milton line getting electrified along with Georgetown and Lakeshore, since there would be a pretty significant trackage overlap between the Milton line and the Lakeshore line. It would also be much less expensive for GO to build 2 new tracks along the Milton line west of Kipling, because IIRC the corridor is a fair bit wider than east of Kipling.

PS: With regards to the south end of the line, yes a new south-to-east and west-to-north connection would need to be built, and that could likely happen in conjunction with the grade-separation of Horner Ave, which would surely need to happen if that line is scheduled to see any type of significant GO service (it and Evans Ave are the only at-grade crossings left on that corridor).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Interesting idea re: diverting the Milton line. Yes, it would mean Kipling would be removed from service as a GO station, but like I've mentioned before, and this would only make it more appealing, is to build an integrated transit hub and yard at Honeydale. That would be west of where the Milton line would veer south, and would have more convenient access for MiWay.

This may also improve the chances of the Milton line getting electrified along with Georgetown and Lakeshore, since there would be a pretty significant trackage overlap between the Milton line and the Lakeshore line. It would also be much less expensive for GO to build 2 new tracks along the Milton line west of Kipling, because IIRC the corridor is a fair bit wider than east of Kipling.

PS: With regards to the south end of the line, yes a new south-to-east and west-to-north connection would need to be built, and that could likely happen in conjunction with the grade-separation of Horner Ave, which would surely need to happen if that line is scheduled to see any type of significant GO service (it and Evans Ave are the only at-grade crossings left on that corridor).

If they are smart, they can hit Honeydale and Sherway on the way south.