[mdrejhon]

Presumably the same way that some trains will be providing all-day hourly service to Hamilton Centre.

That was mentioned to be non-electrics (existing diesels) going to Hamilton, and electrics going to Burlington. Hourly Hamilton service would only pass through Aldershot hourly (per direction).

The hourly Hamilton diesels would probably all go express after Oakville while enroute to Union. That is what is suggested by the plan.

 

[mdrejhon]

Very disappointed that nothing much is being done with the Milton line.

Consolation prize: Hurontario LRT just became massively more useful, with its connection to Brampton (15min peak, hourly allday) and Port Credit allday service (15min allday), and maybe Milton will larer get a few offpeaks, too. And, eventually, electricification from Bramalea to Brampton (when triple tracked) and then both Hurontario endpoints have electricified RER service!

I think Metrolinx may probably have approved Hurontario internally -- look at Hurontatio connections to three different GO lines that now becomes easily reachable from downtown Mississauga. It is now a shoo-in if Mississauga wants it. Bringing access to two different frquent-service GO stations is far easier than the Milton challenge.

 

[Jonny5]

Have Halton and Metrolinx worked out a timetable to complete a grade separation at Burloak Drive? That road has massively spiked in traffic with the new shopping centres on both sides. That has to now be one of the top 5 busiest level crossings in the whole network and I imagine they would want it eliminated before 15 minute service begins.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

possible counter peak service to kitchener

That was mentioned to be non-electrics (existing diesels) going to Hamilton, and electrics going to Burlington. Hourly Hamilton service would only pass through Aldershot hourly (per direction).

The hourly Hamilton diesels would probably all go express after Oakville while enroute to Union. That is what is suggested by the plan.

When do you guys think they'll say something about Milton and Richmond Hill again? Next Month?

 

[crs1026]

The last Metrolinx Board meeting had two reports on the agenda that are impacted by the Wynne announcement.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd..._BoardMtg_Regional_Express_Rail_Update_EN.pdf

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150303/20150303_BoardMtg_PP_Report_EN.pdf

The previous Board meeting had this report

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20141211/20141211_BoardMtg_RER_Update_EN.pdf

Both speak to the need to have specific Service Concepts and Business Case analyses for each route. I'm guessing some midnight oil is being burned (or may have already been burned) to reconcile the earlier documents with the announcement.

The next ML Board meeting is June 25th. I don't think the politicos will be forthcoming with more detail before then.

It will be interesting to see how these documents change by the next ML Board report, and what additional detail emerges about what is proposed for each line, and what the timetable is.

Some of the announcements are just leveraging existing infrastructure. That's the true low-hanging fruit. The tougher part is where there will have to be capital improvements to enable the improvement. That needs a lot of up-front design, contractor selection, tendering, etc. The clock is ticking on that stuff. Which is why it's so important to pedantically look back at the past pronouncements and make sure there is forward motion.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

That was mentioned to be non-electrics (existing diesels) going to Hamilton, and electrics going to Burlington. Hourly Hamilton service would only pass through Aldershot hourly (per direction).

Hourly or better it said. I simply said that I think you are reading too much into a brief table. Particularly for a service that wouldn't be starting for 8 years. Lots can change between then and now.

 

[nfitz]

When do you guys think they'll say something about Milton and Richmond Hill again? Next Month?

Not soon. In the 5-year plan for 2015-2020 they released last September they only noted for Milton that they'd be investigating approaches to develop improved rail services on the Milton corridor through 2020. I'd guess we'd hear more as they started to roll out Stouffville and Barrie service before the next election. Or we can try and read in between the lines of the various engineering studies.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not soon. In the 5-year plan for 2015-2020 they released last September they only noted for Milton that they'd be investigating approaches to develop improved rail services on the Milton corridor through 2020. I'd guess we'd hear more as they started to roll out Stouffville and Barrie service before the next election. Or we can try and read in between the lines of the various engineering studies.

Thanks. That sucks for Mississauga. At RH can go to the Barrie or Stouffville lines.

 

[reaperexpress]

All very true, but moving Milton to 15 minutes at rush hour without adding trackage is poor economics - each train costs roughly $15M. Unless they turn back and make a second trip, this is a lavish way of adding service. Put $50M into track and there is more capacity than buying more trains.

This is true for all the lines that are being upgraded, Milton is just the most extreme case. The storage yard in Milton is already full at night.

Every 15 minute rush hour service is not lavish at all for Milton. It is actually represents a reduction in service compared to the current schedule, which has headways a low as 10 minutes.

Here is the current AM Peak eastbound train schedule at Milton as of Monday April 20, 2015 (headway in brackets):

6:23 (-)
6:43 (0:20)
7:03 (0:20)
7:13 (0:10)
7:23 (0:10)
7:38 (0:15)
7:48 (0:10)
8:08 (0:20)
8:30 (0:22)

That said, your point is absolutely valid. Increasing service on most lines would be most cost-effectively implemented by having the earliest trains returning counter peak to operate a second peak period run.

 

[reaperexpress]

This would probably mean permanent discontinuation of the Hamilton 16 express (except overnight) in order to fill up the hourly Hamilton GO trains better. Not everyone would be happy about that, but they can speed things up by the extra trackage, with Metrolinx dedicated track and hopefully only one level crossing over freight track. That could potentially reduce Hamilton-Aldershot times quite significantly.

They really need to speed up downtown Hamilton trains, if they plan to make it the allday station.

Yeah, the Hamilton-Union travel time needs to be under 60 minutes so they can discontinue the Route 16 Express, otherwise the trains would be horrendously underutilized. But at that point I think people would be relatively okay with the change despite the decrease in frequency because trains are more comfortable and reliable than the bus. Plus unlike the 16, they'd likely stop at Burlington, Oakville and Port Credit stations, increasing the destinations accessible by the service.

And....15 minute Burlington?! Does that mean Aldershot will get downgraded to hourly service when Hamilton goes hourly? Aw!
They are going to have to install massive parking garages at Burlington, as some of the Aldershotters will now make the drive to Burlington, given the choice between 15-minute and 60-minute plan.

Yes it does sound like off-peak service at Aldershot will drop from 2 tph to 1 tph. But that is a good move in my book. Aldershot has nothing around it, its ridership consists almost entirely of:
1. Park-and-ride from the west, and
2. Bus transfers from Hamilton.

Group 1 is hardly affected by this change, because they are predominantly travelling to Toronto during the peak period. There will no doubt continue to be a vast number of peak-direction express trains serving the station, including the new James North trains. Group 2 will be vastly reduced in size with the introduction of all-day train service directly to Hamilton.

In my opinion, with all-day train service to Hamilton, we should eliminate off-peak service to Aldershot altogether, including relocating VIA to Burlington Station. Relocating any remaining bus transfers (such as from McMaster) to Burlington Station would actually reduce those passengers' total travel times. The utility provided to the handful of people that might park-and-ride off-peak doesn't warrant the ~2.5 minutes the stop adds to the Hamilton-Toronto travel time.

 

[ehlow]

Thanks. That sucks for Mississauga. At RH can go to the Barrie or Stouffville lines.

Lakeshore West and one stop on the Georgetown/Kitchener line go through Mississauga..

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Lakeshore West and one stop on the Georgetown/Kitchener line go through Mississauga..

Fair enough. But you know Corsuganti will dispute this lol/

 

[robmausser]

Very disappointed that nothing much is being done with the Milton line.

Unfortunately GO/Metrolinx do not own the tracks for the Milton line, and it happens to be a VERY busy freight mainline for CPR, a private company that really doesn't have any interest in passenger service running on it.

This means that Metrolinx will have to invest a lot of money to get this to anything over peak service. They basically need to lay down their own track the entire length of the route.

And they still have to strike an agreement with that private company CPR. And CPR could say no.

Could you imagine the backlash if they promised 15 minute frequencies on the Milton Line and then CPR refused to allow them to?

They can't risk that, and since the huge investment and time needed to make it happen means its years away, they are being pretty hush about any kind of promise.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Unfortunately GO/Metrolinx do not own the tracks for the Milton line, and it happens to be a VERY busy freight mainline for CPR, a private company that really doesn't have any interest in passenger service running on it.

View attachment 44344

This means that Metrolinx will have to invest a lot of money to get this to anything over peak service. They basically need to lay down their own track the entire length of the route.

And they still have to strike an agreement with that private company CPR. And CPR could say no.

Could you imagine the backlash if they promised 15 minute frequencies on the Milton Line and then CPR refused to allow them to?

They can't risk that, and since the huge investment and time needed to make it happen means its years away, they are being pretty hush about any kind of promise.

How much would it cost to lay an extra track through Brampton to move service to Mount Pleasant instead of Bramalea?

 

[ShonTron]

How much would it cost to lay an extra track through Brampton to move service to Mount Pleasant instead of Bramalea?

GO laid a new track most of the way between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant about a decade ago. The new platform at Brampton, with the other track expansions, should allow GO to run hourly trains to Mount Pleasant, but nothing more than that.

You'd have to move Brampton's historic 1907 GTR station back about 10-15 metres and build a third track from Centre Street to McMurchy Avenue to operate half-hourly trains, though CN might insist on having four tracks through there. I'd expect it would cost $100-200 million easy. Money well spent, but the announcements were focused only on the wholly-owned sections of track.