[cbrown2009]

Not surprising, really, with all the political focus now on the bypass it should shock no one if the rail service we have now on the KW line is all there is until sometime in the 2020 decade when the bypass is built. Pretty sure you would have a hard time finding a local politician repping anywhere on the line that is even aware that the 2016 provincial budget contained that March 31, 2017 deadline I jokingly referred to above.

I'm still not clear as to the reasons for this service expansion falling off the table. Is it that CN is unwilling to share the track? Crew shortages? Lack of trains? Couldn't be lack of ridership? Something else?

 

[Allandale25]

Well, if GO is ever extended to Gravenhurst, it would make some sense.

Seriously, think about it, who really thought that train service would be extended to Kitchener and Barrie?

It's been part of Provincial planning documents for awhile. Also, GO briefly service Guelph and Barrie in the 1990s.

 

[innsertnamehere]

my guess is CN.

I don't see full GO service to Gravenhurst ever happening, but an excursion train a la Niagara might be nice for the summer months. Would make getting to Muskoka much easier. Run it to Huntsville, and turn around and head back south.

The only issue is that it would have to go the Richmond Hill route along the east side of Lake Simcoe. Stops could be Toronto - Richmond Hill - Mount Albert - Beaverton - Washago - Gravenhurst - Bracebridge - Huntsville.

 

[Allandale25]

I'm still not clear as to the reasons for this service expansion falling off the table. Is it that CN is unwilling to share the track? Crew shortages? Lack of trains? Couldn't be lack of ridership? Something else?

If I can paraphrase TOAreaFan (correct me if I'm wrong), CN holds all the cards and has the power in the situation. They probably see no financial benefit to allowing off-peak service now that the Bypass is a publicly discussed concept with a conceptual route map. The existing situation is satisfactory for their operations.

 

[micheal_can]

It's been part of Provincial planning documents for awhile. Also, GO briefly service Guelph and Barrie in the 1990s.

I give it 10 years and London will be a GO train stop.

 

[micheal_can]

If I can paraphrase TOAreaFan (correct me if I'm wrong), CN holds all the cards and has the power in the situation. They probably see no financial benefit to allowing off-peak service now that the Bypass is a publicly discussed concept with a conceptual route map. The existing situation is satisfactory for their operations.

This is why I think all rail lines need to be Nationalized. Then you contact the various freight operators to run on it.

 

[TOareaFan]

If I can paraphrase TOAreaFan (correct me if I'm wrong), CN holds all the cards and has the power in the situation. They probably see no financial benefit to allowing off-peak service now that the Bypass is a publicly discussed concept with a conceptual route map. The existing situation is satisfactory for their operations.

Very very close.....the bypass does not really offer CN much more than they have now.....they are able to run all the trains they need to....and they accomplished their goal a while back when they offloaded the parts of the corridor that were superfluous to their needs....got an infusion of hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars and hung on to the bit of the corridor they need to operate their trains....with the added bonus that by hanging on to the bit in the middle they actually limit the number of trains running anywhere on the corridor.

There is absolutely no reason for them to give anything more. The bypass would solve the passenger train problem....but as for CN it only solves a problem that does not exist for them.

The mistake was leaving the hole in the middle of the donut and there is no reason for them to do anything for GO/ML now.....and anyone thinking that CN might contribute some of the capital cost of the bypass has to ask themselves..."why would they do that"?

 

[cbrown2009]

Hmmm... I'm no expert on this, just a casual observer and regular user of this line throughout any and all times of the day and week (midday, evenings & weekends). But CN has proven a willing partner in the past and, based on my own observations, I don't see the trackage between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant as being so full of freight movements that evening and weekend hourly Go trains following a similar schedule to the current midday service should present any major issues to CN. And if getting to Mount Pleasant is a big deal, surely Bramalea is more than doable in the interim, more so if Platform 4 ever gets done and reopened.

 

[TOareaFan]

The only issue is that it would have to go the Richmond Hill route along the east side of Lake Simcoe. Stops could be Toronto - Richmond Hill - Mount Albert - Beaverton - Washago - Gravenhurst - Bracebridge - Huntsville.

That is similar to the route of the old Ontario Northland train I used to take to Huntsville a couple of times a year. Stops were not identical to that, though, it was Toronto - Unionville (I think, but it could have been Markham) - Washago - Gravenhurst- Bracebridge - Huntsville.

I think it went on to North Bay after Huntsville but I can't really remember.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The Northlander took the Richmond Hill route. The Stouffville line tracks dead end in Uxbridge.

But yes, it would be similar to the Northlander train. the Northlander actually ran all the way up to Cochrane.

 

[TOareaFan]

The Northlander took the Richmond Hill route. The Stouffville line tracks dead end in Uxbridge.

But yes, it would be similar to the Northlander train. the Northlander actually ran all the way up to Cochrane.

I seem to recall a stop somewhere in the 905....and I thought it was either Unionville or Markham.....but maybe it is just old age telling me that.

 

[smallspy]

The mistake was leaving the hole in the middle of the donut and there is no reason for them to do anything for GO/ML now.....and anyone thinking that CN might contribute some of the capital cost of the bypass has to ask themselves..."why would they do that"?

You make it sound like CN would have offered the section from Bramalea to Georgetown, and Metrolinx turned it down.

CN didn't offer it, nor will they. Until the bypass is built, there is precisely 0 incentive for them to do anything with the corridor - which also happens to be the percentage chance that Metrolinx has of buying the line from CN until the bypass is built.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Well, if GO is ever extended to Gravenhurst, it would make some sense.

Seriously, think about it, who really thought that train service would be extended to Kitchener and Barrie?

Hmm, I would have guessed Kitchener, maybe not Barrie so much. Gravenhurst?! Hell no, not for a while.

• Acton/Guelph/Kitchener-Waterloo: 9,462/131,974/233,222+104,986 = 479,644 - 32.7 mi - 14,668 people/mi
• Innisfil/Barrie: 36,566/141,434 = 178,000 - 21.47 mi - 8,290 people/mi
• Mt Albert/Pefferlaw/Beaverton/Washago: ~ 4,200/3,000/2,822/13,477 = 23,499 - 62.98 mi - 373 people/mi

That's a crude measure, but it illustrates the magnitude.

 

[TOareaFan]

You make it sound like CN would have offered the section from Bramalea to Georgetown, and Metrolinx turned it down.

No I do not mean that at all....but I would not have paid a cent for any of the corridor until the whole corridor was on the table.....a fall back position would have been that the purchase had to include, at a minimum, access to the Bramalea station.

I have no doubt that CN did not offer the Bramalea to Georgetown portion....not for free and not at any price.....i am sorry if my wording gave you the impression I did.

 

[dowlingm]

Orillia, Collingwood, Midland... etc.

If ONTC cut back their bus base to Barrie, and interlined with GO the rest of the way, maybe they would have vehicles and drivers to service more destinations...

Collingwood wouldn't be in their jurisdiction though.