[Megaton327]

So on the subject of yards...

Lakeshore East has the new East Rail Maintneance Facility...
Stoufville has...nothing that I know of...but midday service...
Richmond Hill has a layover facility, but no service and none planned outside of rush hour.
Everyone is hot for all day two way on Barrie, but no layover yard that I know of...
Kitchener is to have layover yard at Breslau...not sure where this stands...
Milton...no yard...
Lakeshore Westbis home to Willowbrook...and for good measure Lewis Road is already up and running.

What gives with this wierd distribution of facilities? Richmond Hill has a large layover facility and no plan for service putside of rush hour, but Barrie has no yard for a line that is soon to have all day, evening and weekend and is a electrified RER candidate.

Barrie has a layover yard adjacent to Allandale Waterfront GO, where all of the current rush hour trains (5 10/12-car + 2 6-car rush hour) are currently stored overnight. There is also a siding at Bradford that, come September 4th, will be used to store one (likely 6-car) train overnight.

Milton certainly does have a yard, as well. Both Barrie and Milton's yards are very clearly visible on Google Maps' satellite view.

BTW I know you mentioned the future Breslau yard, but Kitchener does currently have a small layover yard just west of Kitchener GO that stores 2 trains, plus the much larger yard at Georgetown GO.

Why would the lack of service outside rush hour mean Richmond Hill doesn't need a layover facility? It's absurdly wasteful (fuel, equipment wear, employee wages) to deadhead trains back to Willowbrook in the evenings and up to Richmond Hill/Gormley in the mornings--it makes much more sense to keep them where they are in the evenings since that's where they need to be in the mornings.

 

[TransitBart]

Barrie has a layover yard adjacent to Allandale Waterfront GO, where all of the current rush hour trains (5 10/12-car + 2 6-car rush hour) are currently stored overnight. There is also a siding at Bradford that, come September 4th, will be used to store one (likely 6-car) train overnight.

Milton certainly does have a yard, as well. Both Barrie and Milton's yards are very clearly visible on Google Maps' satellite view.

BTW I know you mentioned the future Breslau yard, but Kitchener does currently have a small layover yard just west of Kitchener GO that stores 2 trains, plus the much larger yard at Georgetown GO.

Why would the lack of service outside rush hour mean Richmond Hill doesn't need a layover facility? It's absurdly wasteful (fuel, equipment wear, employee wages) to deadhead trains back to Willowbrook in the evenings and up to Richmond Hill/Gormley in the mornings--it makes much more sense to keep them where they are in the evenings since that's where they need to be in the mornings.

So prior to the past 5 years, GO was deadheading all the morning trains on all lines where there was no yard before?

 

[micheal_can]

So prior to the past 5 years, GO was deadheading all the morning trains on all lines where there was no yard before?

I know when I lived in Whitby in the early 2000s, they parked just west of the station. You could see them from the 401.

 

[timio]

Kitchener also has 4 train spaces east of the expressway at the new bus/train facility.

 

[Megaton327]

So prior to the past 5 years, GO was deadheading all the morning trains on all lines where there was no yard before?

On Richmond Hill, they certainly were, yes. The Barrie line had some storage at Bradford back before they (re-) extended service up to Barrie, so no deadheading in recent memory. I believe Milton had a yard in Campbellville before the Milton yard opened. Georgetown has, I think, had its yard for a while, and I feel like Lincolnville is pretty established too (not the station, which opened 2008, but the yard was there for a while before that).

 

[Megaton327]

Kitchener also has 4 train spaces east of the expressway at the new bus/train facility.

I hadn't heard of that, thanks for the heads up - for others wondering: https://www.therecord.com/news-story/6120227-work-begins-on-16m-kitchener-facility-to-add-go-trains/ at 200 Shirley Ave

Apparently the current 2-train mini-layover just west of King St either has closed or will close soon, as it was always intended to be temporary and there were some issues fitting it next to the LRT and some other things, so trains will move over to that new facility which is also larger.

 

[TransitBart]

Once upon a time, I saw a graph showing ridership by line increasing. Lakeshore West at the top of the heap, followed at the time I think by Milton. That might have been three years ago and was certainly prior to the evening and daytime service that has come on Stouffville, Barrie and Kitchener. What are current ridership numbers? Are the additional runs attracting more riders? I use Lakeshore West to go to Burlington and that's always busy so I have no real feel for any trends. Is GO publishing ridership numbers? For example - the last numbers in the Wikipedia article are from 2014. I count two and three quarter years since then.

 

[Megaton327]

Once upon a time, I saw a graph showing ridership by line increasing. Lakeshore West at the top of the heap, followed at the time I think by Milton. That might have been three years ago and was certainly prior to the evening and daytime service that has come on Stouffville, Barrie and Kitchener. What are current ridership numbers? Are the additional runs attracting more riders? I use Lakeshore West to go to Burlington and that's always busy so I have no real feel for any trends. Is GO publishing ridership numbers? For example - the last numbers in the Wikipedia article are from 2014. I count two and three quarter years since then.

Anecdotally, the Barrie line trains are very full. Most of the southbound trains that make all stops have almost all seats full by King, or the seats fill up with some of the Maple passengers; many Maple passengers and Rutherford passengers usually have to stand. The 3:40, 4:10, 4:40, and 5:05 northbound trains tend to be jam packed leaving Union, the 5:35 less so, and only the 6:05 and 6:45 routinely leave with a decent number of empty seats.

And the Barrie line must be gaining ridership, as why else would they be extending train runs, adding more coaches to existing trains, and adding new rush hour trains in addition to the off-peak service?

I have sometimes taken Kitchener trains out of Union and they tend to be even more packed than the Barrie ones with large numbers of standees. And I often walk along platform 3 to get across Union quickly, so I see the Milton trains on platform 4 (may have changed recently due to construction, but was there for a while) frequently be completely packed to the extent that they can't even take on any more standees in certain cars a minute before departure, and those largely come every 15 minutes not every 30.

But yes, real numbers, taken frequently, would be helpful. I remember looking for this data in the past and GO isn't all that great about providing it. GO/Metrolinx are much less transparent and open than, for instance, the TTC.

 

[timio]

Apparently the current 2-train mini-layover just west of King St either has closed or will close soon, as it was always intended to be temporary and there were some issues fitting it next to the LRT and some other things, so trains will move over to that new facility which is also larger.

Still open, AFAIK. No issues with the LRT - they built the King Street Grade separation without impacting access to the yard.

 

[smallspy]

GO has quite a few overnight storage facilities, in an effort to try to minimize deadheading as much as possible. Still, there are some deadhead trips necessary, although these will be reduced as more trainsets are introduced.

Here's a quick listing of the layover locations:

Oshawa Station - 2 trains overnight
Henry Street Yard (Whitby Station) - 3 trains overnight and midday
Don Yard - 11 trains midday, 3 UPX trains overnight
Lincolnville Station - 6 trains, currently organized by 5 full-length trains, 2 6-car trains on one long track, and 2 6-car trains on the mainline adjacent to the facility
Gormley Yard - 5 trains overnight (room for 6)
Barrie Yard - 7 trains overnight
Bradford layover - 1 train overnight (room for 2)
Kitchener Yard - 2 trains overnight until new Shirley Yard is completed
Shirley Yard - 4 trains overnight when completed
Georgetown Station - 2 trains overnight (room for 3)
Pearson Airport - 2 UPX trains overnight
Milton Yard - 12 trains overnight
Lewis Rd. Yard - 2 trains overnight (room for 4)
Hamilton GO Station - 4 trains overnight
Willowbrook - 11 trains overnight

Of these, it's assumed that once the ERMF will allow them to cease storing trains at Oshawa and Henry (as well as eliminate the early morning and late evening deadheads to Oshawa). Shirley Yard is supposed to be completed in the next month or two, which will allow them to vacate the temporary facility west of King St. And Lincolnville Station will be moved to the opposite corner of Bethesda and 10th Line, which will allow them to reconfigure the yard to hold more trains.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[smallspy]

Milton Yard - 12 trains overnight

A mistake on my part - Milton Yard is capable of holding 10 trains, not 12. The facility is designed to be expanded to 12, but there would need to be additional construction completed before that happens.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Fritter]

Pearson Airport - 2 UPX trains overnight

This is interesting. I would never have thought of train storage there. Makes sense though. With the existing service hours , by the time the last train of the night deadheaded to Willowbrook, it would likely need to deadhead right back to Pearson for the first departure of the morning.

 

[44 North]

Once upon a time, I saw a graph showing ridership by line increasing. Lakeshore West at the top of the heap, followed at the time I think by Milton. That might have been three years ago and was certainly prior to the evening and daytime service that has come on Stouffville, Barrie and Kitchener. What are current ridership numbers? Are the additional runs attracting more riders? I use Lakeshore West to go to Burlington and that's always busy so I have no real feel for any trends. Is GO publishing ridership numbers? For example - the last numbers in the Wikipedia article are from 2014. I count two and three quarter years since then.

Have been wanting to see these numbers too. Maybe they're not keen to show em because it's possible there's been a slight decline, fearing the media or opposition will jump on it. But these declines are happening across the board. My guess is the numbers are still really healthy even with a few annual dips. So why not show them?

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Pearson Airport - 2 UPX trains overnight

This is interesting. I would never have thought of train storage there. Makes sense though. With the existing service hours , by the time the last train of the night deadheaded to Willowbrook, it would likely need to deadhead right back to Pearson for the first departure of the morning.

There is also 1 UPX storage track at 175 City View Drive.

 

[smallspy]

There is also 1 UPX storage track at 175 City View Drive.

Which, while was built for the service, has not yet been used as a layover point - and with no expected date to start, either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.