[smallspy]

^trips that could potentially be turned into revenue service. I imagine most moves to/from storage don't qualify, as they could only stop at Exhibition / Mimico. Unless they are planning to really jump frequency on that short stretch.

As of the December schedule change, there were 11 trains that left Willowbrook to deadhead out to Oshawa, Aldershot, Oakville, Mt Pleasant and Bramalea on every weekday morning. The bulk of these leave between 4.15am and 6.59am, with one last Oakville run leaving at 8.02am. There are also a lot of deadheads from the overnight outposts to the first stations, but virtually none of these can easily be converted to revenue moves. There are 6 trains that do the reverse in the evening.

There are 7 deadheads that run from Union to outlying stations in preparation for a second run. In the afternoon, there are only 3 trainsets that do the reverse.

Of the moves to and from midday storage, about 22 of the 40-ish moves can be used for revenue service. And of those, many will only be able to service Mimico - they are currently scheduled to use one of the non-platform tracks at Exhibition.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

Of the moves to and from midday storage, about 22 of the 40-ish moves can be used for revenue service. And of those, many will only be able to service Mimico - they are currently scheduled to use one of the non-platform tracks at Exhibition.

Which makes them good candidates to serve a new centre platform at Park Lawn ;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

Was it a ten or twelve car train? That's where the abject waste comes, albeit it might be dictated by logistics since RER stock isn't here yet, and might not be for a decade. I see same on the Barrie line, soutbound trains in succession with apparently no-one on board, at least on the weekend.

Its going to take people a while to wrap their heads around the fact that the GO train is operating on off-peak times.

Plus better fare integration.

 

[dowlingm]

What is going to be interesting is the upcoming April schedule changes. It seems that there is going to be a LOT more mid-day service running, seemingly in an effort to keep those trains out on the road and not in yards. Apparently the new CEO has demanded a 25% increase in the number of trains running this year, and it looks like this will go a long way towards meeting that objective.

My recollection was that Verster was Chief Mech Eng at Irish Rail (so not responsible but at the same time likely familiar with internal discussions) around the time when they came under a bit of public pressure about "ghost trains" (deadheads). Some were later converted to revenue runs - the passenger lobby group claimed victory, Irish Rail claimed it was their plan all along

 

[steveintoronto]

^ https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/irn...-engineer-phil-verster-interviewed-t1066.html

 

[idc24]

I have come to the realization that an efficient and expedited way to bring better all day GO train service from Union to Milton would be to create a branch service off of the Kitchener GO line and make use of the CNR Halton subdivision. This maybe a more viable solution than adding a third track to the Milton Line through Mississauga and negotiating additional trackage rights with Canadian Pacific. The CNR Halton subdivision runs from Georgetown on a southwest routing towards Milton, it crosses under the CP Galt Subdivision and goes right through the heart of urban Milton then it enters North Burlington and continues under the QEW and meets the Lakeshore West Mainline at the Freeman junction in central Burlington. In affect this route could potentially double as a Go train bypass for the infamous Lakeshore West Line as well as the aforementioned existing Galt Subdivision that the Milton Line uses. GO transit can only use the tracks during the weekday AM PM rush. Occasionally VIA Rail makes use of the route to divert its Corridor service trains on the southwestern Ontario Routes to Windsor and Niagara Falls during emergencies and construction on the Lakeshore corridor… from the image below CNR does not seem to mind too much.

http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=31601

Caption: Rare Mileage for VIA Patrons as #83 and #75 combined travel over the normally freight only CNR Halton subdivision on a hazy, foggy day July 9 2013. Due to a washout on the Oakville sub VIA trains had to re-route. In the background is an aldershot-milton local servicing industries nearby and of course the hazy escarpment.

 

[crs1026]

from the image below CNR does not seem to mind too much.

CN doesn't mind???? Did you notice in the picture how VIA had to lash two trains together into one move to make the trip????

The one thing that would be "poking the bear" would be moving passenger trains onto CN's freight line. Expect a request from CN to add double tracking to the single track zones. At least.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

I have come to the realization that an efficient and expedited way to bring better all day GO train service from Union to Milton would be to create a branch service off of the Kitchener GO line and make use of the CNR Halton subdivision. This maybe a more viable solution than adding a third track to the Milton Line through Mississauga and negotiating additional trackage rights with Canadian Pacific. The CNR Halton subdivision runs from Georgetown on a southwest routing towards Milton, it crosses under the CP Galt Subdivision and goes right through the heart of urban Milton then it enters North Burlington and continues under the QEW and meets the Lakeshore West Mainline at the Freeman junction in central Burlington. In affect this route could potentially double as a Go train bypass for the infamous Lakeshore West Line as well as the aforementioned existing Galt Subdivision that the Milton Line uses. GO transit can only use the tracks during the weekday AM PM rush. Occasionally VIA Rail makes use of the route to divert its Corridor service trains on the southwestern Ontario Routes to Windsor and Niagara Falls during emergencies and construction on the Lakeshore corridor… from the image below CNR does not seem to mind too much.

View attachment 134251



http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=31601

Caption: Rare Mileage for VIA Patrons as #83 and #75 combined travel over the normally freight only CNR Halton subdivision on a hazy, foggy day July 9 2013. Due to a washout on the Oakville sub VIA trains had to re-route. In the background is an aldershot-milton local servicing industries nearby and of course the hazy escarpment.

Now that you have figured out how to get trains from Georgetown to Milton (and I too am not about to agree that CN would just say "ok, do that") how would you get them to Georgetown in the first place? Would you, for example, propose putting this new Miton (via Georgetown) service on the very same CN owned tracks between Georgetown and (just east of) Bramalea that are preventing any additional trains being added to the KW GO service? Do you think CN would just magically approve more use there if the ultimate destination was Milton as opposed to Kitchener?.....cause I don't.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Have to agree with Paul and TOareaFan, idc24. First, welcome to Urban Toronto. Second, while something may look possible on a map, when GO doesn't own the track it is an important issue that can have implications. Specifically with respect to TOAreaFan's point about GO not owning the tracks all the way to Bramalea, check out the Railway Association of Canada's Rail Atlas here to see: https://www.railcan.ca/rac-initiatives/canadian-rail-atlas/

 

[Disparishun]

Its going to take people a while to wrap their heads around the fact that the GO train is operating on off-peak times.

Plus better fare integration.

Agree. Adding intermediate stops will help, too -- I can see the Barrie Line (need a better name) being a lot more useful to folks on weekends when it stops at Lansdowne/Bloor subway and Caledonia/Eglinton LRT.

 

[canarob]

Sitting at Kennedy Station now and just witnessed a southbound train of Stouffville GO. The train was almost empty, with less than 10 people stepping off to connect with the subway. While it's nice to add more services, which benefits myself, does the ridership really justify the costs?

I actually think there's more demand for better northbound weeknight and two-way weekend service on the Stouffville Line than mid-day service. The evening trains that end at Unionville are brutal as all the passengers heading further north are squeezed into standing-room-only buses. As it stands, I don't think what's being offered can really be called all-day train service since it only serves the entire line sporadically. Once there's consistent all-day train service for the entire line, we can start complaining if ridership is low, but what's being offered now does little to entice new riders.

Likewise, I think weekend train service would be well used as well once people along the line get used to the schedules, etc. The weekend buses are currently quite crowded. Again, I can see why people drive instead of standing in the aisle of a crowded bus going down the DVP.

 

[Megaton327]

Fun fact: since the midday Barrie Line schedules came into effect on January 2nd 2018, midday trains have not run north of Maple as scheduled on ANY out of 5 Mondays, and on 5 out of 6 Thursdays, due to freight train traffic.

 

[crs1026]

Fun fact: since the midday Barrie Line schedules came into effect on January 2nd 2018, midday trains have not run north of Maple as scheduled on ANY out of 5 Mondays, and on 5 out of 6 Thursdays, due to freight train traffic.

I rode the line a couple of days ago and spotted three customers with recent rail cars on hand (easy to spot, with snow on the ground you can see if the tracks have been used). There was the lumber yard at King City and two customers at Kirby, one on each side of the main line.

ML really needs to explain this one.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

I find it's rare that CN Rail is quoted in media articles on GO service so posting this one in case it's of interest.

UPDATED
Province breaks ground on Stoney Creek GO station, but still has no deal with CN
By Samantha Craggs, CBC News Posted: Feb 08, 2018 10:18 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 08, 2018 5:03 PM ET

Metrolinx and local MPPs say they can hammer out a deal with CN Rail in time to open Stoney Creek's Confederation GO station in 2019 — despite the fact that the process has already dragged on for years.

CN controls much of the rails heading into Hamilton, and the rail corridor from downtown Hamilton to the new Stoney Creek station. Local MPP Ted McMeekin did a ceremonial groundbreaking at 397 Centennial Pkwy. N. on Thursday, along with St. Catharines MPP Jim Bradley and Fred Eisenberger, the mayor of Hamilton. The project is already in phase two of construction.

McMeekin said the province's GO plans for Hamilton and Niagara still hinge on CN, but they're making progress.

"(Negotiations) may have been going badly, but I understand they're going well now," said McMeekin, a Liberal MPP who represents Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale.

For its part, CN says the two sides are trying to hammer out a revised agreement for a new track running from the West Harbour to Confederation GO stations.

"We continue to work with Metrolinx to revise the Hamilton area expansion agreement to complete construction of the infrastructure needed to establish the Confederation station service," spokesperson Jonathan Abecassis said in an email.

There's a lot at stake. Crews are already on stage two of the new $35-million Confederation GO station. Metrolinx also hopes to run long-awaited all-day GO trains to Hamilton Centre, and weekday rush-hour service between West Harbour to Union Station.

CN owns the whole corridor from West Harbour to the Confederation station, said Leon Stambolich, Metrolinx's director of corridor infrastructure for Lakeshore West GO line.

"It's all their track," Stambolich said. "It's their corridor. We're in partnership with CN."

Right now, they're negotiating "one segment of the corridor at a time."

"It's a long process," he said. "Years."

Niagara's future GO train service also depends on CN. Metrolinx plans to extend GO service to a Casablanca GO station in Grimsby by 2021, and to St. Catharines two years after that, and eventually Niagara Falls by 2025, McMeekin said.

But "it's not a matter of simply putting a train on the tracks," Bradley said.

The Confederation GO station will include an island platform with a canopy, a "kiss and ride" area, and a bus loop for buses running to Niagara and Hamilton and as many as 600 parking spaces. It will also have as many as 600 parking spaces and a walkway leading down to Centennial Parkway.

In a news release, the province said the station will "help facilitate year-round GO rail service to Stoney Creek on the Lakeshore West line, and will also lay the groundwork for future plans to extend a second rail track to Niagara Falls."

Right now, crews at the Confederation GO station are excavating the property, building sewer connections and culvert extensions, and clearing the rail corridor.

Metrolinx says all its construction work has been completed at the West Harbour GO station.

Corrections

• Metrolinx plans to have all-day GO train service from Union Station to the Hamilton Centre GO station on Hunter Street, but its plans do not currently include all-day GO to the West Harbour GO station. The plan for West Harbour is 30-minute service from West Harbour to Union Station on weekday mornings and from Union Station to West Harbour in the afternoon/evening.
  Feb 08, 2018 4:55 PM ET

 

[TOareaFan]

So, once again, ML is spending money on infrastructure without any guarantees that they can make use of it,