[DonValleyRainbow]

To be clear, beyond the minister, under no circumstances would the party be involved in press release or press conference decisions.

...

The Minister has significant influence in which items merit a press conference as opposed to a press release.

I have significant knowledge about Ontario's bureaucracy and its operations, and I can back @Northern Light up on this one.

The party doesn't need to be involved. If it's related to the mandate to a Minister given by the Premier (which is built off of the campaign platform and promises made), then it's 'government business', and the Minister and their staff have the authority to determine when, where and how pressers are required. There is obvious calculation on the optics in the moment and for the next election, but it is part of the political element in our governance: a party and its candidates ran on something, and how the governing party implements that and communicates that is all part and parcel, even if it's using the resources of the bureaucracy.

I personally don't think that's inherently wrong or bad, but there may be some that do. And that's fine. But my point is there is no direct party involvement. It's the narrative of an elected, partisan government.

Where I do think there is room for debate, however:

• Is the policy or program being announced effective?
• Is it an effective use of money, especially when it occurs at a del Duca frequency?
• If there are bells and whistles beyond the bare bones for a presser (media handouts, signage, podiums, AV equipment), is that an effective use of money?

 

[joet00]

It's Thursday! And we know what that means: Short-turns on the Barrie Line!

I was planning to catch the 12:41 SB at Aurora. Having seen the 10:40 NB/11:41 SB turning at Maple, I was prepared.

Uncovered parking was full up, but I was fortunate to find a space on the ground floor of the structure.

12:40: I'm walking to the bus loop. No train. 5 or 6 coaches in the bus loop. Some drivers are milling, but one is asking passengers their destination as they approach, and directing them to the correct bus.

12:43: I'm seated on the coach running express to Union. I take the second-to-last seat.

12:46: A passenger in a wheelchair arrives. Our driver asks two other passengers, in the Priority seats, to move. They will have to stand.

12:53: Wheelchair is secured and we are underway.

1:32: Arrival at Union Bus Terminal, just a few minutes late. Less than I expected, including an emergency stop on the side of the 404 so that someone could relieve themselves.

Thoughts:

If this is recurring for the foreseeable future (as it appears to be), perhaps GO could have a station attendant staff the station building, ready to use the PA system to direct passengers to the buses. There were more than a few people sitting in the shelters, presumably waiting for a train to pull up, that only came to the buses after being approached by a driver.

At first blush, the 69/69A were introduced to replace the local service on the 65. I wonder if the planners forsaw the need to regularly substitute buses for trains, and figured it was better to have buses nearby performing short revenue runs, rather than them idling on-standby.

The bus loop has long had monitors displaying train service, but today I see a second monitor has been installed showing the latest bus services from that station. More information is always better than less.

I have to wonder if this regular bus-stitution works against efforts to build ridership. If you plan to take a train and/or you are averse to buses, and you see train trips are regularly cancelled, do you stay in your car? At what point should GO just go ahead and make buses-to-Maple the default between 10 and 2 on Mondays and Thursdays?

 

[Neutrino]

including an emergency stop on the side of the 404 so that someone could relieve themselves.

Are you kidding?? Hahahahaha well hopefully this starts 10 pages of discussion about GO washrooms.

 

[timio]

Speaking of GO bus pit stops, I was on my way to Kitchener last week and woke up from my nap then the bus driver pulled into the ON Route in Cambridge to let someone off to use the washroom.

 

[smallspy]

With the greatest of respect Dan, you are a very knowledgeable guy about many things, particularly the railway sector.

Where you often get yourself in trouble is pontificating about things you don't know about, and doing so with the same certainty in your voice (writing) as when you do.

I am very involved in the public sector; and have a very close friend who is a senior communications staffer in a provincial ministry, in Ontario (not transportation).

She and I often discuss how decisions like this are taken.

To be clear, beyond the minister, under no circumstances would the party be involved in press release or press conference decisions.

That, is, in fact, expressly forbidden.

Of course, some party staff, including campaign staff are in regular discussions w/ministers; but direct contact w/Ministry communications staff is exceedingly rare.

Beyond that, the government collectively does not discuss most press releases at the cabinet level.

*key promises*, those for which the Premier will attend, and some others, may be formally discussed, although the details would still be up the Minister and Minister's Office and/or communications staff.

The Minister has significant influence in which items merit a press conference as opposed to a press release.

I won't explain the entire process in the Ministries with which I am most familiar as that would divulge too much; but be assured the process is similar across ministries.

I can tell you there are Ministers who despite having a dozen material news releases from their ministry a month, average less than one appearance in front of media over that period, as a matter of choice.

There are others, who are particularly fond of their own voice, and any camera time, and as a result staff seek out more opportunities for said Ministers.

Well, let me put it to you this way - are these decisions being made at the minister level now the same decisions as are being made in previous governments?

And the background to that question - a person whom I have known for a very long time and who has been previously associated with members within the former Provincial Tory government (his primary focus before, and after that, has been the municipal level) explained to me at the time that by-and-large decisions such as photo-ops were largely being pushed by those "higher up" - which he seemed to intimate to me was the Premier's Office.

Look, if I'm out in left field on this and totally misunderstood him, I apologize and retract my previous comments. But seeing as how things are done now, is it possible that other parties may operate different when in power?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Northern Light]

Well, let me put it to you this way - are these decisions being made at the minister level now the same decisions as are being made in previous governments?

And the background to that question - a person whom I have known for a very long time and who has been previously associated with members within the former Provincial Tory government (his primary focus before, and after that, has been the municipal level) explained to me at the time that by-and-large decisions such as photo-ops were largely being pushed by those "higher up" - which he seemed to intimate to me was the Premier's Office.

Look, if I'm out in left field on this and totally misunderstood him, I apologize and retract my previous comments. But seeing as how things are done now, is it possible that other parties may operate different when in power?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Obviously, I can't speak directly from your source, and my contact wasn't yet in her job way back in the Harris years.

However, my impression, having watched this sort of thing for a long while is....

That it varies.

Obviously some leaders are much more controlling than others.

Harper, for instance, was notorious for keeping his minister's on short leashes, with a bit more wiggle room for Flaherty and Baird.

While other PMO's have been a bit more relaxed.

Beyond differences of leader, this is what I understand (from my contact(s))

Simple, routine, press releases, that no one would ever think are photo-op worthy (the annual MNR one that reminds you there's no alcohol in parks on Victoria Day weekend) go out though staff, w/barely any input from the Minister, and zero from the inner sanctum.

Press releases deemed to be positive and/or likely to attract media attention, are hands-on for a Minister, and quite often a cursory briefing note might make its way up the food chain just to make sure there are no issues before release.

Photo-ops are usually initiated at the Ministerial level; but are always flagged up the food chain, even if the Premier is not expected to attend.

The Premier's office gets involved if they were otherwise managing the file/issue and looking for a photo-op; or if the Premier's presence is requested, or virtually anytime you see more than 1 cabinet minister at a presser.

Key campaign promise photo-ops are always flagged up; though the decision to hold them probably didn't come from on-high, on-high just has a veto.

***

All that said, this also varies by Minister, rookies or gaff-prone ministers are much more tightly managed from the centre than those who have a good track record.

 

[crs1026]

Realise too that any number of high level discussions may lead to a “we oughta give this profile” discussion, which may involve any number of advisors and consultants (who almost always have partisan affiliations, if not inner circle status with both party and elected representatives). Only after that conclusion is reached do the communications staff even get consulted.
So, to the original comment that got this thread going - while the communications people may not have contact, you can be sure that there is party input to lots of thimgs that end up as photo ops.

- Paul

 

[Neutrino]

Speaking of GO bus pit stops, I was on my way to Kitchener last week and woke up from my nap then the bus driver pulled into the ON Route in Cambridge to let someone off to use the washroom.

Why are they allowed to do this? Delays the other passengers.

 

[hw621]

Waiting at the rail crossing on 14th Ave. There is still freight train on the Stouffville corridor?

 

[smallspy]

View attachment 135324

Waiting at the rail crossing on 14th Ave. There is still freight train on the Stouffville corridor?

This is CN's York Sub. It is a freight-only line.

GO's Uxbridge Sub is about a mile to your east, and is grade-separated with 14th.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

^You aren't on the Stouffville Corridor. That's the York Subdivision, normal CN freight route, and where one day there may be a cp bypass ;-)

- Paul

 

[hw621]

This is CN's York Sub. It is a freight-only line.

GO's Uxbridge Sub is about a mile to your east, and is grade-separated with 14th.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

^You aren't on the Stouffville Corridor. That's the York Subdivision, normal CN freight route, and where one day there may be a cp bypass ;-)

- Paul

Cough now that is awkward cough LOL

 

[crs1026]

^ Great minds ;-)

- Paul

 

[Sandpit]

Why are they allowed to do this? Delays the other passengers.

Because the alternative is to have them not be able to hold it in, causing the bus to be taken out of service due to biohazard and an even bigger delay (or at least literally cause a big stink).

 

[smallspy]

^ Great minds ;-)

- Paul

Or fools seldom differ?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.