[canarob]

All the January 7 scheduled dropped this morning. See https://www.gotransit.com/en/trip-planning/seeschedules/full-schedules

I didn't see any extra Stouffville trains added. I think that was one more train temporarily cancelled for trackwork.

I think Metrolinx is wrong here. I see no trips that are 5 minutes faster. There's no change in travel times I can see, other than the only Toronto to Kitchener express now stopping everywhere - adding 14 minutes to the fastest train from Toronto to Kitchener.

Looks the same as what's there now to me.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Ontario Introduces More GO Train Service on the Kitchener Line
New Morning and Evening GO Trains Will Increase Service to Kitchener by 25 Per Cent
December 17, 2018 2:00 P.M.
Ministry of Transportation

KITCHENER— Ontario's Government for the People continues to deliver on its promise to get people moving faster by bringing more GO train service to Kitchener.
Minister of Transportation, Jeff Yurek visited the Kitchener VIA Station today to make the announcement along with Leslie Woo, Chief Planning and Development Officer, Metrolinx.
"We are now increasing service to Kitchener GO by 25 per cent and there will be more news to come," said Minister Yurek. "This is an important step as we continue working with CN to deliver more service and offer two-way, all-day GO train service for people on the Kitchener line as soon as possible."
Starting on January 7, 2019, people travelling by GO Transit between Kitchener and Toronto's Union Station will benefit from additional GO train service every weekday morning and afternoon, with a new trip option for customers in Kitchener, Guelph and Acton.
A morning trip that currently begins at Georgetown GO Station will now begin at Kitchener GO Station at 5:40 a.m., stopping at Guelph and Acton GO stations before continuing to serve all stops to Union Station, arriving at 7:43 a.m.
The existing trip that currently leaves Union Station at 3:35 p.m. and ends at Georgetown GO Station will extend to Kitchener GO Station, stopping at Acton and Guelph GO stations before arriving in Kitchener at 5:43 p.m.
"Thanks to an enhanced relationship with our rail partner, CN, we are increasing GO train service for people travelling on the Kitchener line without waiting for a costly rail bypass," said Minister Yurek.
"The new service on the Kitchener GO line offers people more flexibility and more choices when planning their commute," said Kitchener—Conestoga MPP Mike Harris.
"Making it easier and more convenient for people commuting between Waterloo Region and Toronto is important to growing our economy and creating good jobs for people through Ontario," said Kitchener South—Hespler MPP Amy Fee.
"Each new transportation link between Waterloo Region and Toronto makes our entire community stronger," said Cambridge MPP Belinda Karahalios.
Commuters will also benefit from an additional morning trip option from Georgetown, Brampton and Mount Pleasant GO stations, and a new afternoon trip from Union Station to Bloor, Weston, Etobicoke North and Malton GO stations.
"We're very excited to push our GO Expansion program forward with new GO train service for commuters in Kitchener and Brampton this January," said Leslie Woo, Chief Planning and Development Officer, Metrolinx. "More service means more freedom and more relief from congested roadways. This is the start of more great things to come for our customers on the Kitchener line."

This is honestly a lot worse than I expected. They seemed to elude to the fact that bypass was too expensive and that they weren't going to pursue it. This is really bad news all around if this is the case: HSR out, Electrification through Brampton and Eventually Kitchener Out. Two way all day, out. And they thought we'd be "Happy" with this arrangement.

 

[TOareaFan]

This is honestly a lot worse than I expected. They seemed to elude to the fact that bypass was too expensive and that they weren't going to pursue it. This is really bad news all around if this is the case: HSR out, Electrification through Brampton and Eventually Kitchener Out. Two way all day, out. And they thought we'd be "Happy" with this arrangement.

They claim they can deliver Two Way -All Day without the bypass.

 

[Streety McCarface]

They claim they can deliver Two Way -All Day without the bypass.

That doesn't mean it will happen. Sure, Kitchener already has 2WAD up till mt pleasant, but none on weekends or evenings, when a lot of people actually need it. They also have to double track the existing section between Mt Pleasant and Kitchener which will cost a fortune and won't really be worth it if the freight bypass isn't built since the number of trains going into Kitchener will be hugely limited.

 

[rbt]

They claim they can deliver Two Way -All Day without the bypass.

All-stop hourly service as presented by McGuinty didn't require the bypass. Wynne added substantially to the service expected on that corridor (intercity HSR plus a mix of quite frequent local + express GO service). If we go back to the McGuinty plan for the troublesome portion of the line, hourly diesel from Kitchener to Bramalea, then it's doable again. As CRS mentioned, getting the Milton corridor cleared simultaneously really adds value for money.

I'd like to think they've done something more innovative. The Niagara announcement tells me "make do with what you already have" is the general instruction from Government.

I don't disagree with that structure either. If very high ridership appears and the bypass corridor is protected, then it can still be constructed at that future date.

 

[nfitz]

That doesn't mean it will happen. Sure, Kitchener already has 2WAD up till mt pleasant, but none on weekends or evenings, when a lot of people actually need it.

Or reverse-peak in rush-hour - which surely is a bigger demand. First AM train westbound arrives at Mount Pleasant at 9:44 AM. Last PM train eastbound trains departs Mount Pleasant at 3:52 PM. So if you work a 6-hour day, right next to the GO station, you can use this for commuting!

Oh, sure there's the bus ... the 3:52 PM train takes 47 minutes to Union. the 4:40 PM bus takes 100 minutes - if it's on time. (the 3:52 PM is a rare express ... the last train that actually stops at the other Toronto stops leaves Mount Pleasant at 2 pm - and there are no buses to Etobicoke North, Weston, or Bloor).

 

[robmausser]

Its clear however that the focus of the PC's is expanding and improving service to areas outside of the GTA/downtown Toronto.

This comes as no surprise though, as that is where their voter base is.

Expect more announcements like this, more service to X small community in Ontario, and silence on GO RER/Toronto improvements.

 

[smallspy]

That document does actually represent adding trains on the CN Halton Sub. Extending a Georgetown train to Kitchener doesn't take any great cooperation from CN, but some of the other juggled schedules did in fact represent a concession by CN.

- Paul

Actually, there wasn't much concession from CN at all in this in that respect. They are eliminating a couple of deadheading trains by starting them from Georgetown and Kitchener, which frees up that track time. In terms of movements on CN's rails, it's at the worst a wash.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ShonTron]

That doesn't mean it will happen. Sure, Kitchener already has 2WAD up till mt pleasant, but none on weekends or evenings, when a lot of people actually need it. They also have to double track the existing section between Mt Pleasant and Kitchener which will cost a fortune and won't really be worth it if the freight bypass isn't built since the number of trains going into Kitchener will be hugely limited.

2WAD stands for two-way, all-day. That means evenings, and it means counter-peak service.

Two things holding up counter-peak service (but not evening or weekend service)
- It will take up two of three of the Georgetown South (Weston Sub) tracks, potentially interfering with the UP Express, which is given all the priority. It's not all difficult to schedule with infrequent two-way service, but harder during peak. Union Station still doesn't have all its platforms accessible right now due to construction. Having no fourth track built when the rest of the GTS/UPX work was done, even just as far north as Weston Road, is bothersome.

- CN can work with peak GO trains going in one direction, but again, it's harder to do with trains coming in both directions. The hourly midday service isn't a problem as GO only uses one track between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant for it, leaving two tracks for CN, minus the short stretch through Downtown Brampton.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They claim they can deliver Two Way -All Day without the bypass.

That doesn't mean it will happen. Sure, Kitchener already has 2WAD up till mt pleasant, but none on weekends or evenings, when a lot of people actually need it. They also have to double track the existing section between Mt Pleasant and Kitchener which will cost a fortune and won't really be worth it if the freight bypass isn't built since the number of trains going into Kitchener will be hugely limited.

All-stop hourly service as presented by McGuinty didn't require the bypass. Wynne added substantially to the service expected on that corridor (intercity HSR plus a mix of quite frequent local + express GO service). If we go back to the McGuinty plan for the troublesome portion of the line, hourly diesel from Kitchener to Bramalea, then it's doable again. As CRS mentioned, getting the Milton corridor cleared simultaneously really adds value for money.

I'd like to think they've done something more innovative. The Niagara announcement tells me "make do with what you already have" is the general instruction from Government.

I don't disagree with that structure either. If very high ridership appears and the bypass corridor is protected, then it can still be constructed at that future date.

Or reverse-peak in rush-hour - which surely is a bigger demand. First AM train westbound arrives at Mount Pleasant at 9:44 AM. Last PM train eastbound trains departs Mount Pleasant at 3:52 PM. So if you work a 6-hour day, right next to the GO station, you can use this for commuting!

Oh, sure there's the bus ... the 3:52 PM train takes 47 minutes to Union. the 4:40 PM bus takes 100 minutes - if it's on time. (the 3:52 PM is a rare express ... the last train that actually stops at the other Toronto stops leaves Mount Pleasant at 2 pm - and there are no buses to Etobicoke North, Weston, or Bloor).

Its clear however that the focus of the PC's is expanding and improving service to areas outside of the GTA/downtown Toronto.

This comes as no surprise though, as that is where their voter base is.

Expect more announcements like this, more service to X small community in Ontario, and silence on GO RER/Toronto improvements.

2WAD stands for two-way, all-day. That means evenings, and it means counter-peak service.

Two things holding up counter-peak service (but not evening or weekend service)
- It will take up two of three of the Georgetown South (Weston Sub) tracks, potentially interfering with the UP Express, which is given all the priority. It's not all difficult to schedule with infrequent two-way service, but harder during peak. Union Station still doesn't have all its platforms accessible right now due to construction. Having no fourth track built when the rest of the GTS/UPX work was done, even just as far north as Weston Road, is bothersome.

- CN can work with peak GO trains going in one direction, but again, it's harder to do with trains coming in both directions. The hourly midday service isn't a problem as GO only uses one track between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant for it, leaving two tracks for CN, minus the short stretch through Downtown Brampton.

They can do the expanded service. They choose to drag this out on purpose. CN is not going to charge 1.5 billion for 1 or 2 tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown. Metrolinx needs to do better. Brampton, Barrie and Stouffville should have all their off peak service done by the end of 2019. It doesn't even have to be RER. We can't keep kicking the can down the road here.

 

[hw621]

They can do the expanded service. They choose to drag this out on purpose. CN is not going to charge 1.5 billion for 1 or 2 tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown. Metrolinx needs to do better. Brampton, Barrie and Stouffville should have all their off peak service done by the end of 2019. It doesn't even have to be RER. We can't keep kicking the can down the road here.

Exactly, do 30-min AD2W diesel first

 

[nfitz]

Exactly, do 30-min AD2W diesel first

How about a train each direction every 2-3 hours first! A single westbound train in rush hour would be a good start.

 

[Sandpit]

All the January 7 scheduled dropped this morning. See https://www.gotransit.com/en/trip-planning/seeschedules/full-schedules

They changed the cover design, but mistakenly labelled EVERY route as "Daily", even those that aren't.

 

[Allandale25]

They can do the expanded service. They choose to drag this out on purpose. CN is not going to charge 1.5 billion for 1 or 2 tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown. Metrolinx needs to do better. Brampton, Barrie and Stouffville should have all their off peak service done by the end of 2019. It doesn't even have to be RER. We can't keep kicking the can down the road here.

Metrolinx needs to do better but you're comparing the Halton Sub (Georgetown to Bramalea) to Barrie and Stouffville where there is no mainline freight and only evening occasional local switching? That's apples to oranges. The CN volume through Brampton far exceeds those other lines you're comparing it to.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Metrolinx needs to do better but you're comparing the Halton Sub (Georgetown to Bramalea) to Barrie and Stouffville where there is no mainline freight and only evening occasional local switching? That's apples to oranges. The CN volume through Brampton far exceeds those other lines you're comparing it to.

For Brampton, we are working with a much shorter area. I agree that Barrie and Stouffville will be easier but there is nothing saying that it will take forever to lay track and put in switches.