[Streety McCarface]

I'm rather confused how starting a single eastbound train earlier in Kitchener, and converting a westbound express to local, and running to Kitchener would create so much induced demand. Looking closely at the schedule, the whole thing may be a red herring. The issue isn't the extension to Kitchener, or some extra stops (though I can see those that took an express would be happy it's now local).

The real issue appears is with the adjusted departure times, there's some longer gaps at peak. Which makes the problem simply that too many people have arrived.

Looking just at Brampton, the old AM departures were:
6:03 AM
6:39 AM (36 minutes later)
7:04 AM (25 minutes later)
7:19 AM (15 minutes later - express)
7:32 AM (13 minutes later)
8:02 AM (30 minutes later)
8:25 AM (23 minutes later)

And the new AM departures are:
6:03 AM
6:30 AM (27 minutes later)
6:55 AM (25 minutes later) (now starts at Kitchener)
7:20 AM (25 minutes later - express)
7:30 AM (10 minutes later)
8:00 AM (30 minutes later)
8:25 AM (25 minutes later)

Essentially they've widened the gap just before the express from 15 to 25 minutes. I suspect the 6:55 isn't particularly crowded. It's the 7:20 AM that would be the issue.

The worst complaints seem to be about platform crowding at PM rush at Union. The old PM departures from Union were:
3:35 PM (to Georgetown)
4:20 PM (45 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
4:50 PM (30 minutes later) (express to Kitchener)
5:02 PM (12 minutes later) (to Mount Pleasant)
5:20 PM (18 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
5:50 PM (30 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:50 PM (60 minutes later) (to Kitchener)

The new PM departures are:
3:35 PM (extended to Kitchener)
4:04 PM (29 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
4:35 PM (31 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
5:02 PM (32 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
5:27 PM (25 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:00 PM (33 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:50 PM (50 minutes later) (to Kitchener)

It looks like someone has tried to take the schedule, which ran more trains closer together right at the peak point, and instead space them out so that departures are more consistent.

Which completely fails to take into account having enough capacity at the peak point. All the "express to local" and "extended to Kitchener" arguments are only confusing the issue. If that was the only thing that had happened, I doubt there'd be anywhere near this issue.

The answer is likely just tweaking departure times a bit. Or better yet, add an extra train.

Moving the express 10 minutes earlier in the morning would probably solve most of that issue. Alternatively, add a 7:10 and 7:45 train.

In the evening add a 4:50 and 5:15 departures (and why not run an express).

Really, the line needs 15-minute service to Brampton during peak hour asap.

The actual issue is absolutely the new timings. I don't think anyone seriously questions that, but the ministry framing as induced demand gives me hope that they do intend further expansion.

It's not necessarily just the timings, it's the capacity. Most non-peak trains (those departing from union before 16:30) have 12 car trains while of the most important peak service (the 17:03) train has only 10 cars. While the Kitchener line did fine with those before the improvements in Kitchener, the growth in ridership has deemed these extra seats a necessity, especially since this new train is not running express. Whichever transportation engineer was responsible for that decision needs to be canned. There's also plenty of room on the Kitchener line between the 16:35 and 17:03, so there is no reason for the 15:35 to have 12 cars (let alone 10, that one should be 6 if anything), and for the 17:03 not running express.

 

[Allandale25]

I'm rather confused how starting a single eastbound train earlier in Kitchener, and converting a westbound express to local, and running to Kitchener would create so much induced demand. Looking closely at the schedule, the whole thing may be a red herring. The issue isn't the extension to Kitchener, or some extra stops (though I can see those that took an express would be happy it's now local).

The real issue appears is with the adjusted departure times, there's some longer gaps at peak. Which makes the problem simply that too many people have arrived.

Looking just at Brampton, the old AM departures were:
6:03 AM
6:39 AM (36 minutes later)
7:04 AM (25 minutes later)
7:19 AM (15 minutes later - express)
7:32 AM (13 minutes later)
8:02 AM (30 minutes later)
8:25 AM (23 minutes later)

And the new AM departures are:
6:03 AM
6:30 AM (27 minutes later)
6:55 AM (25 minutes later) (now starts at Kitchener)
7:20 AM (25 minutes later - express)
7:30 AM (10 minutes later)
8:00 AM (30 minutes later)
8:25 AM (25 minutes later)

Essentially they've widened the gap just before the express from 15 to 25 minutes. I suspect the 6:55 isn't particularly crowded. It's the 7:20 AM that would be the issue.

The worst complaints seem to be about platform crowding at PM rush at Union. The old PM departures from Union were:
3:35 PM (to Georgetown)
4:20 PM (45 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
4:50 PM (30 minutes later) (express to Kitchener)
5:02 PM (12 minutes later) (to Mount Pleasant)
5:20 PM (18 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
5:50 PM (30 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:50 PM (60 minutes later) (to Kitchener)

The new PM departures are:
3:35 PM (extended to Kitchener)
4:04 PM (29 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
4:35 PM (31 minutes later) (to Georgetown)
5:02 PM (32 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
5:27 PM (25 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:00 PM (33 minutes later) (to Kitchener)
6:50 PM (50 minutes later) (to Kitchener)

It looks like someone has tried to take the schedule, which ran more trains closer together right at the peak point, and instead space them out so that departures are more consistent.

Which completely fails to take into account having enough capacity at the peak point. All the "express to local" and "extended to Kitchener" arguments are only confusing the issue. If that was the only thing that had happened, I doubt there'd be anywhere near this issue.

The answer is likely just tweaking departure times a bit. Or better yet, add an extra train.

Moving the express 10 minutes earlier in the morning would probably solve most of that issue. Alternatively, add a 7:10 and 7:45 train.

In the evening add a 4:50 and 5:15 departures (and why not run an express).

Really, the line needs 15-minute service to Brampton during peak hour asap.

Mayor and Minister interview this morning. There is also a call from a rider who notes that because of the new platform location there's only one concourse to get to the platform (given the Bay Concourse construction)?

http://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-...rek-1.8659197?mode=Article&autoplay=1.8659197

 

[WillTo]

Ha!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083051753929654273

Earlier in the thread she mentioned she got on the wrong train.

 

[Leo_Chan]

They need to do the freight bypass. This is ridiculous.

Or even a freight bypass bypass in northern GTA.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's only because I couldn't comprehend how one more Kitchener train and one train stopping at stops the UP Express mostly already stopped at would create any significant demand, that I started to look at the timings themselves!

My first reaction was "does stopping at Malton really create that many more passengers? If so, then, yes, trains should stop at Malton!"

 

[smallspy]

It's not necessarily just the timings, it's the capacity. Most non-peak trains (those departing from union before 16:30) have 12 car trains while of the most important peak service (the 17:03) train has only 10 cars.

Other than the early morning trains where it didn't matter, the only train that had 12 cars was the 5.02pm outbound train - and that was because it ended at Mount Pleasant and turned back. All of the other trains were L10s, as that is all that can be stored at the "temporary" yard west of Kitchener Station and at Georgetown.

Now that they've started by making one of those Kitchener trains an L12, they should be able to rejig the schedules a bit more and add at least 2 more from Kitchener.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

It's not necessarily just the timings, it's the capacity. Most non-peak trains (those departing from union before 16:30) have 12 car trains while of the most important peak service (the 17:03) train has only 10 cars.

Starting January 14th, the 5:02pm departure will now have 12 coaches. Just posted by the Brampton West MPP (includes the station of Mount Pleasant)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BramptonBeats/permalink/1515694815199787/

Twitter version:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083474179251494917

 

[W. K. Lis]

The PC's solution...

 

[TOareaFan]

If the old timings worked better.....why not just go back to them?

 

[Streety McCarface]

If the old timings worked better.....why not just go back to them?

Because that would involve the PCs admitting they royally F***ed up.

 

[nfitz]

Because that would involve the PCs admitting they royally F***ed up.

The PCs input was the one run being extended. I can't imagine they had any input or awareness of the other changes.

 

[DKsan]

If the old timings worked better.....why not just go back to them?

I suspect it would be a similar reason to the TTC: service change periods align with shift switches on behalf of the operators and guards aka they don't want to mess with the schedules of their workers.

 

[crs1026]

The political fail for ML on this may actually cost them. New Minister tries out the transit photo op thing and gets burned. Ain’t gonna come back for more.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

The political fail for ML on this may actually cost them. New Minister tries out the transit photo op thing and gets burned. Ain’t gonna come back for more.

- Paul

I agree. He looked like a scared sheep in the Global News interview. One almost has to wonder of someone(s) at Metrolinx purposely set this up as a lesson for him?
https://globalnews.ca/news/4834948/ontario-metrolinx-overcrowded-go-trains-kitchener/
(clarification: Yurek interview not at this link, I'll try and re-find it and post later, was watching it earlier)

Reviewing links to find the Yurek comments, tripped across this CTV one with some scathing comments on the "cancelled" K/W "express" that I didn't know had existed prior.

Correct or not, this actually has Yurek "blaming Metrolinx for lack of planning"...lol. Captain Petard hangs himself...'Make it sew'
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/problems-continue-for-kitchener-go-train-commuters-1.4248890

What the F was Yurek thinking? That fairy dust comes from brake shoes? A lot more is going to go wrong for him shortly...

'Bring back the express for starters,' one commuter tweeted about Kitchener GO train woes
[...]
NDP MPPs from Kitchener, Waterloo and Brampton issued a joint statement saying the provincial government didn't improve service for commuters with the recent changes to the Kitchener line, adding that "the Ford government has made things even worse for people."

They called for the express train to be reinstated immediately.

Yurek argued the comments from the NDP were "a publicity stunt" and that doing what they suggested would "cut the service increase and take a step backwards."

When asked about the express train and whether it will be reinstated, Yurek's press secretary Andrew Buttigieg said in an email: "We are continuing to work with CN to add more trains as we work towards two-way, all-day service."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitc...in-two-more-cars-evening-trip-yurek-1.4974438

Captain Petard blames the Kitchener Klingons...

“I have told Metrolinx that they didn’t do a good enough job with this transition. They have safety officers who are going to be at the site today to help the people board and I expect a solution to this issue in the next few days,” Yurek said earlier in the day.

https://www.cp24.com/news/province-...vercrowding-at-brampton-go-stations-1.4247976

 

[smallspy]

If the old timings worked better.....why not just go back to them?

The way that the train cycling and crewing works on GO, going back to the old schedule may require them to change the schedules elsewhere in the system as well.

I suspect it would be a similar reason to the TTC: service change periods align with shift switches on behalf of the operators and guards aka they don't want to mess with the schedules of their workers.

While that is true to a degree, GO does not rely on fixed-length "board periods" as the TTC does. They can change schedules basically whenever they want, so long as they give the union enough time to allow crews to pick their schedules.

The bigger issue is with the freight railroads. There is usually many weeks and months of discussions required in order to allow the schedules to change, and that's also dependent on how the modelling works out.

Dan