union2pearson
Active Member
I agree, it's just 1 express train arriving in the AM and a departure in the PM. basically. lol.
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- Thread starter drum118
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thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
1......count'em....err....it...............1 new express train getting the Del Duca treatment.
Look at all that verbiage for 1 new train......
Yeah, what's with all these media coverage for 1, not 2, not 3, 1 new train
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
In defense of the Ministers, it is a very effective way of getting the word out to the general public. If people aren't aware of these changes that affect the system (and people on UrbanToronto unfortunately do not count: we're the outliers that go looking for this sort of stuff), the news media will not report on it, and no one will know that changes have arisen. Sure, we may not like the rhetoric of these ministers, but at the same time, they're appealing to the general population, and if the public understands that changes are occurring, those changes are more likely to be taken advantage of by said public.
1......count'em....err....it...............1 new express train getting the Del Duca treatment.
Look at all that verbiage for 1 new train......
I'd honestly be more annoyed by ministers touting the beginning of work on a pedestrian underpass at a station than a minister announcing a new express train. It's also worth noting that both ministers have announced single additions of trains in the past, with the rest of us here not taking not note of their announcement style.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Is Metrolinx still looking at a potential GO station between Walkers Line and Cumberland Ave in Burlington? I noticed that it is specifically referred to as a potential future GO station in the Burlington Official Plan.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It was listed in their expansion plan station list, along with something like 50 other stations around the GTA. I don't think it even made the short list, yet alone the list of stations to actually be constructed.
Amare
Senior Member
Late question posted by me for the upcoming Metrolinx Town Hall, but be sure to upvote if you want the answer as to why Metrolinx hasnt improved bus service within the City of Toronto. Usually I try not to toot my own horn, but in this case this is a very important issue:
More GO Bus Service within Toronto
More GO Bus Service within Toronto
steveintoronto
Superstar
Done!
Allandale25
Senior Member
Service increase chart from Phil Verster's speech today. Video of it here:
Service increase chart from the 24:24 mark. It goes out to September 2020.
Looks like the next service increase comes in June.
Service increase chart from the 24:24 mark. It goes out to September 2020.
Looks like the next service increase comes in June.
Northern Light
Superstar
Service increase chart from Phil Verster's speech today. Video of it here:
Service increase chart from the 24:24 mark. It goes out to September 2020.
Looks like the next service increase comes in June.
Excellent Find! Thank You!
This chart shows the increases in service measured off the Sept '17 baseline.
The June increase is just shy of 5% more service which would be the largest increase since Sept '18
More notable is the massive increase contemplated for September of this year which will 9.3%.
For context, the largest increase in this chart is Sept '18 which was was 11.9% over baseline.
That was the addition of 15M service on LSE midday as well as big LSW improvements, added rush hour service and a new trip on Kitchener.
This chart also suggests there will be no service improvements between Sept '19 and April '20, and the next substantial improvement, after this September won't be till Sept '20 when an increase of 10% over baseline will be delivered.
Based on Verster's public promises/timelines, that last one is likely 2WAD to K-W.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm hoping september will see full 15 min service on LSW, perhaps with Weekend service as well.
That or some better service on other lines.. I don't think the infrastructure is there yet for Stouffville or Barrie though to really add that much.
That or some better service on other lines.. I don't think the infrastructure is there yet for Stouffville or Barrie though to really add that much.
crs1026
Superstar
It's a bit hard to decypher the numbers on my screen, but it looks like the absolute numbers are
Current - 124M seat-miles per week
June 2019 - 129M Delta = + 5M
Sept 2019 - 138M Delta = +10M
June 2020 - 140M Delta = + 2M
Sept 2020 - 150M Delta = + 10M
A 12-car 1944-seat train making a 30 mile round trip five days a week represents 583,200 seat miles per week. Using that rough estimate, the increases would be
June 2019 - 8 round trips per week
Sept 2019 - 20 round trips per week
Sept 2020 - 20 round trips per week
That barely fills out the 2WAD service on the Barrie, Stouffville, and Bramalea lines to 7 days and 16 hours on all lines.
Of course, the number of seat miles will stretch further if 6-car or 8-car trains are assumed, but given that ML pushes the PR envelope at all times, I would expect their projection calcs assume 12-car trains just to make the seat-mile increase look more impressive. The number of increased trains is not that great.
I will be grateful for the added service, but I can't see this as some sort of bright future. I would also like to see some sort of stat about seatmiles per fleet vehicle per week. GO has done a great job of building up its fleet, but how is its per-car utilization doing? If we are adding fleet to get those numbers up, we are using up capital that could be used to lay track that enables more turnbacks and better fleet utilization.
- Paul
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Northern Light
Superstar
I'm not quite so pessimistic.
If we pick up 25% or so, more service, every 12-18 months, through 2024, that's a more than doubling of today's service levels.
At to the near-term, I don't expect substantial improvements on the Barrie run until Davenport is done.
K-W will top out at hourly and not a lot more to Bramalea till the 401 underpass is done.
Stouffville I expect to see full weekday service, but I wouldn't wager on weekends given the work on Steeles and the need for further double-track work and a fly-under at Scarborough Junction.
I'm imagining the bulk of these increases would be something like LSW to Hamilton weekday midday, LSE/LSW 15M weekends during the day/early evening, hourly to K-W . Some new rush hour trains.
But I have no inside track on this at the moment, that is merely speculation on my part.
@smallspy might have more insight.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Barrie will get a lot of focus. Goes through several battle ground ridings in York and Simcoe. I think they will do the fly over and some of the track work but anything more then hourly service will be a problem until the mid 2020s.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Without discussing the numbers, the methodology is immediately suspect: "weekly seat miles". Think about that. Does that preclude those standing? Any transit system at the forefront of progress is providing less seating for short and sometimes medium distance trips, and in the case of European operations, forfeiting toilets too, to make for a higher crush load. (We've talked about this prior as to seating layout for coaches). The purpose of this is to increase standing room.
Someone somewhere is making claims, and drawing them on a chart, that are the product of contradicting their own claims for what's necessary to increase load efficiency, and how to achieve it.
Edit to Add: This is actually arguable, fair enough, but it's an example of the duplicity of posting "weekly seat miles" as a criteria:
The Answer for Standing-Room-Only Subways? More Standing Room
I raise this point, as I smell a 'Bait and Switch' yet again from Metrolinx, Masters and Minions. They'll increase passenger numbers, doubtless, and they'll do it by cramming in more standees for the same limited stock available. "Seat Miles" is a misnomer in this application. It's used for airlines. Hint: No standees.
Example:
Note that empty seats count as part of that criterion.
And again, it's a case of Bait and Switch. The latest claims, in the absence of any sign of electrification, (and ML themselves have made reference to it having to be diesel) are predicated on adding RER stock (as to what mode is a whole other discussion at this point) to achieve the 'fifteen minute frequency'.
And we still have no answer on whether the grade separation is still on as scheduled, let alone where that "RER stock" is coming from. Now consider why Verster et al aren't presenting RPM charts instead of ASM ones?
Addendum: You'll note that Metrolinx have a reference in a box to that chart stating "Revenue Seat Miles". Again, a misnomer for the purpose purported for that presentation:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rpm.asp
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crs1026
Superstar
^No metric is perrfect, but a metric based on number of runs would be preferable and could show progress by route.
The seat mile metric can be enhanced just by converting existing 10 car trains to 12 car with no addition to service. For Kitchener - 162 sm x 2 cars x 62 mikes x 2 round trip x 5 days x 4 trains is a lot of pedalling faster to stand still.
- Paul
The seat mile metric can be enhanced just by converting existing 10 car trains to 12 car with no addition to service. For Kitchener - 162 sm x 2 cars x 62 mikes x 2 round trip x 5 days x 4 trains is a lot of pedalling faster to stand still.
- Paul