ShonTron
Moderator
The shorter trains definitely make cleaning easier and save on fuel, but I wonder why it took until now to cut the trains in half, now that more workplaces are opening up and restrictions are loosening a bit.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
smallspy
Senior Member
Part of it was planning. GO needed to figure out where and how to store hundreds and hundreds of coaches, but still have their facilities be operable. I will agree that the optics of the timing look particularly awful though.
They've actually been working for the past 2 weeks on moving equipment around various locations on the system in order to be ready for it.
Dan
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
And all this happened right on the heels of GO taking delivery of about 200 new coaches. Are they even using 200 coaches to run all the consists that are needed right now?
crs1026
Superstar
Maybe this belongs in some other thread, but I’m baffled as to which one (mods?) so the L6/L12 discussion is as good a place to start as any.
As things pick up a little, there will have to be some material change in transit vehicles and stations to regain passenger trust.
I have yet to see a single announcement about anyone doing anything temporary or permanent to vehicles, beyond blocking off seats.
Has anyone begun to design a post- covid transit vehicle? What would it look like?
I have no ideas personally, except maybe ditching air conditioning and opening windows. Plexiglass cubicles or face height shields? Zoned ventilation or exhaust? Limits to numbers carried?
Everything I read seems to point to shared air as the danger.... even shared touch surfaces are not the concern the were two months back.
I had actually wondered if GO was retaining L12 just to give potential passengers added hope and reassurance about personal space - to reduce anxiety.
- Paul
As things pick up a little, there will have to be some material change in transit vehicles and stations to regain passenger trust.
I have yet to see a single announcement about anyone doing anything temporary or permanent to vehicles, beyond blocking off seats.
Has anyone begun to design a post- covid transit vehicle? What would it look like?
I have no ideas personally, except maybe ditching air conditioning and opening windows. Plexiglass cubicles or face height shields? Zoned ventilation or exhaust? Limits to numbers carried?
Everything I read seems to point to shared air as the danger.... even shared touch surfaces are not the concern the were two months back.
I had actually wondered if GO was retaining L12 just to give potential passengers added hope and reassurance about personal space - to reduce anxiety.
- Paul
APTA-2048
Senior Member
I imagine it would be a combination of things. Some Asian cities who handled this pandemic quite well have extensive public transportation systems.
I think mask wearing will be something we’ll see a lot more in North America, especially on transit.
We’ll probably have better capability to test and contact trace. From what I understand, that played a big role in Taiwan’s success. Many apps have been developed, but I’m already seeing a lot of North American resistance because “freedom”.
Increased and more visible cleaning practices may become normal at certain times of the year.
Some finishes in the stations and vehicles will change. I imagine manufactures and suppliers will be emphasizing easy-to-clean surfaces, antimicrobial coatings, etc. We’ll probably see changes to HVAC systems.
crs1026
Superstar
^What I know of hvac on both rail and bus makes me think that it’s the exact reverse of what one would want to minimise exposure to an airborne virus. Most vehiches distribute heated/cooled air throughout the vehicle, ie there are a fresh air ports near each seat. But the return air ducts are central. That’s great for AC ,(and window defrosting) but in covid space it means every passenger’s breath is pulled the length of the vehicle, ie through everyone’s airspace, before it is extracted.
I’m not knowledgeable whether/how air is recirculated and filtered, but to minimise transmission, it should not recirculate.
It strikes me that in covid space one would want each passenger’s breath to be removed as close to that passenger as possible, without taking a trip through the vehicle. Push air pressure in somewhere to maintain a positive internal pressure, and push the air out of the vehicle at every seat. Effectively, a transit vehicle should be a very leaky balloon. Maybe one just reverses air flow from present.
Or, people bring their own SCBA, or a mask that plugs into a central air supply ;-)
I suspect that transit experts are hoping for a vaccine so that new designs aren’t needed. Cleaning vehicles more rigourously is great news, but I suspect that so long as people fear closeness to other people, public transit will remain a non starter for most.
- Paul
I’m not knowledgeable whether/how air is recirculated and filtered, but to minimise transmission, it should not recirculate.
It strikes me that in covid space one would want each passenger’s breath to be removed as close to that passenger as possible, without taking a trip through the vehicle. Push air pressure in somewhere to maintain a positive internal pressure, and push the air out of the vehicle at every seat. Effectively, a transit vehicle should be a very leaky balloon. Maybe one just reverses air flow from present.
Or, people bring their own SCBA, or a mask that plugs into a central air supply ;-)
I suspect that transit experts are hoping for a vaccine so that new designs aren’t needed. Cleaning vehicles more rigourously is great news, but I suspect that so long as people fear closeness to other people, public transit will remain a non starter for most.
- Paul
APTA-2048
Senior Member
This talk about the HVAC reminded my of those prototype R11 subway cars for New York. They touted an air purification system where the air was circulated past ultraviolet lamps. Not sure how effective that was (I’m guessing it wasn’t).
Speaking of ultraviolet light, that has now become part of the MTA’s cleaning regimen.
I do agree, there will be a lot of apprehension with regards to using transit.
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't know about vehicle design change per se..................but its very clear Phil Verster is thinking about permanent changes to operation.
See my post here from the Metrolinx Catch-All thread: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/metrolinx-other-items-catch-all.27710/post-1557684
smallspy
Senior Member
I haven't been able to get my hands on a 660 or a train cycling schedule, but if I had to guess there are probably about 30 trains running each day - until March, there were 55 trainsets needed for service each weekday. Of those 30-ish only about 7 or 8 of them are 10 car sets, with the rest being 6 car trains, so the math tells us that there should be a little over 200 cars currently required for service.
The total fleet size, not including car 4205 which should be arriving in the next day or so, or any of the cars currently in CAD or ONR, is 941. That's a lot of storage capacity needed to store cars that largely aren't turning a wheel.
Dan
lenaitch
Senior Member
There is probably lots of spare storage space scattered around to province, but it would be a cost for both storage and movement, but many area would likely pose a risk for damage, particularly passenger cars. York-Durham Heritage RR (now shutdown) or the CP Havelock yard come to mind but I imagine there are many others. The BCRY was storing a lot of new tank cars after the post DOT-111 standards came out around the same time the industry contracted. It was a source of income.
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Also the Keating Yard
urbanyimby
Active Member
What do they mean by 'recommending'? Either we have to wear one or not. It's just a continuation of the government's ambiguity on the issue.
Interesting; I just noticed this is dated a week ago, but I just received an email from GO with the info a few minutes ago.
smallspy
Senior Member
And who is going to give GO the money to pay the railroads for interchange, moving and car storage?
They can make it work with the properties that they already have, but it has taken some juggling. That's why there was a 2-week lead up.
Dan