[crs1026]

It says it does this to avoid speed restrictions how come?

It takes a minimum number of wheels making contact with the rails to activate the signals.

There are rules that require one or two locomotives moving on their own to do so at slower speed, so that there is less risk of the movement not triggering the signals. Adding the two coaches puts enough wheels on the rails to be confident that the signals will work properly, so there is no speed restriction.

- Paul

 

[anb]

The focus has been on Barrie and Stouffville double tracking simply because of how easy it is for Metrolinx as they completely own the lines.

But id argue that Georgetown corridor aka Kitchener Line is the most important.

In terms of the rer corridors, Kitchener line seems the most important (btw are we gonna see weekend service coming this year despite the times right now because it seems ready for it regardless for at least up to bramalea)

In terms of all corridors I wished they worked twice as hard to get ownership and rer service on the Milton line. 6 of the 9 stations are all located in Mississauga, and the only thing that’s holding it back from being a more popular option to Toronto is the peak only service. This could easily take over the barrie and Stouffville lines as the most attractive go line in the whole greater horseshoe corridor. I hope cp can try to find some agreement or bond with ML

 

[NodeGreen11]

Actually, what are the reasons the Milton Go line has much higher ridership with only 10 peak trains?

 

[crs1026]

Actually, what are the reasons the Milton Go line has much higher ridership with only 10 peak trains?

Density, demographics, and distance.

- Paul

 

[Jonny5]

Density, demographics, and distance.
- Paul

I extrapolate from that "demographics" part how Milton was heavily marketed as a commuter hub town to those who worked in the financial district back in the early 2000's. I remember when I started working downtown in 2005 that Milton was the prime destination for office workers who were part of a newly married couple in their mid-late 20's/early 30's that was either having or planning to have children very soon, especially those who both worked downtown and would essentially commute in together. Relatively cheap, the new built homes were easily accessible with mortgages being given out like candy back then, and the new built housing was also generally highly customisable on the interior and had slick marketing noting how rapidly their real estate investment would appreciate in value. It was the GTA's "go west" moment for a few years and it culminated in a massive settlement of downtown workers, most of them still there.

We'll see what they do when their kids go off to University in a few years. Will they stay there? I think many will move out. One thing about Milton residents is they love to complain about any new housing and the people who moved into it after they moved there. "They're building another sub-division? Outrageous! They're ruining Milton. Ours should have been the last one!"

This all applies to the part of Oakville up and around Highway 5 too.

 

[robmausser]

In terms of the rer corridors, Kitchener line seems the most important (btw are we gonna see weekend service coming this year despite the times right now because it seems ready for it regardless for at least up to bramalea)

In terms of all corridors I wished they worked twice as hard to get ownership and rer service on the Milton line. 6 of the 9 stations are all located in Mississauga, and the only thing that’s holding it back from being a more popular option to Toronto is the peak only service. This could easily take over the barrie and Stouffville lines as the most attractive go line in the whole greater horseshoe corridor. I hope cp can try to find some agreement or bond with ML

It will take a herculean effort to take control of the Milton Line. Basically building CP a new line for them to the York Subdivision. (and a new line IN the York sub, CN isnt just gonna share their tracks with CP) This is double digit billion dollar stuff.

In the time and money we could do this we could electrify the Lakeshore West, Kitchener lines with EMU trains, the Hurontario LRT to Brampton GO, build a Dundas LRT, finish the Mississauga Transitway and the 407 Transitway in the area.

While it would be nice to bring more service to Milton Line, you gotta look at what you can do instead with that money, which I think is a better bang for buck.

 

[Northern Light]

It will take a herculean effort to take control of the Milton Line. Basically building CP a new line for them to the York Subdivision. (and a new line IN the York sub, CN isnt just gonna share their tracks with CP) This is double digit billion dollar stuff.

In the time and money we could do this we could electrify the Lakeshore West, Kitchener lines with EMU trains, the Hurontario LRT to Brampton GO, build a Dundas LRT, finish the Mississauga Transitway and the 407 Transitway in the area.

While it would be nice to bring more service to Milton Line, you gotta look at what you can do instead with that money, which I think is a better bang for buck.

True, though if you scale back the ambition, CP has some room, instead of aiming to boost the service as far as Milton, aim for Cooksville (Mississauga City Ctr) to Union only) and I think a workable sum becomes plausible.

You're really only talking about 1 additional track from Cooksville to the Junction.

Still not the top priority but I think it becomes much more interesting that way.

 

[ShonTron]

Density, demographics, and distance.

- Paul

That, as well as frequency. Because CP's schedule includes a wide window for Toronto-bound trains in the morning and Milton-bound trains in the evening, GO runs a lot of trains in a short period. The Kitchener has a lot fewer trains that operate during that peak sweet spot, partly because CN still runs freights during those times, and Metrolinx still has to improve capacity in the inner section as UPX has priority. While Kitchener has more trains, most run in the off-peak.

Before the pandemic, I bet if GO squeezed another rush hour train on the Kitchener Line, it'd fill right up.

 

[lenaitch]

Both mainline carriers will fight tooth and nail to not only ensure their current capacity and access needs but protect any future needs, and all traffic must flow through southern Ontario/GTA. CP is re-establishing itself east of Montreal by taking back the subdivision that runs through New England to to New Brunswick (the 'Lac Megantic' line) to give them access to St. John's and New England.

 

[crs1026]

We'll see what they do when their kids go off to University in a few years. Will they stay there? I think many will move out. One thing about Milton residents is they love to complain about any new housing and the people who moved into it after they moved there. "They're building another sub-division? Outrageous! They're ruining Milton. Ours should have been the last one!"

The people who I know out that way are trading up from those relatively cheap starter homes... to the better parts of Milton. Mississauga (which is where all those folks wanted to go in the first place) is priced out of reach and will remain so. While homes are appreciating in value in Milton, it's still the region's sweet spot for more affordable housing, and unless you're a cottager it's awfully well located with decent highway access to Hamilton, Toronto, and Peel. I can't see Milton empty nesters being attracted to Guelph or Kitchener - no economic advantage. And as Milton develops, the infrastructure is all new and pretty nice - rec centers, bike paths, etc.

Even putting Milton's growth aside, the Milton line couldn't have a better route through Mississauga - east of Streetsville, its catchment is huge, and it's all established suburbs with 2-income white collar families many of whom work downtown....and now their kids attend post secondary downtown. And it's a 2-sided line, where even LSE/LSW has a lake on one side, limiting how many residences are within commuting distance. And, Mississauga has far more vertical development than any other GO catchment area - so even more density close to stations on that line.

The line has pretty much filled in, where Kitchener and Barrie still have gaps of undeveloped land and greenbelt.

- Paul

 

[asher__jo]

Density, demographics, and distance.

- Paul

Has the potential to be a subway for Mississauga.

 

[NodeGreen11]

Has the potential to be a subway for Mississauga.

If CP ever agreed on Metrolinx to build new tracks, it might as well be an automated subway line like the Sydney metro.

 

[anb]

If we got cooksville-union or even erindale-union as the priority corridor for the line, that will still be good enough for now. I searched up how long it would take to get from Erindale to Kipling and with the train its 18 mins while with bus.... 55-70 mins

I‘m pretty sure no one will go against that so i hope at least something happens at a certain point

 

[robmausser]

True, though if you scale back the ambition, CP has some room, instead of aiming to boost the service as far as Milton, aim for Cooksville (Mississauga City Ctr) to Union only) and I think a workable sum becomes plausible.

You're really only talking about 1 additional track from Cooksville to the Junction.

Still not the top priority but I think it becomes much more interesting that way.

I believe the ability for Metrolinx to add more trackage to the CP mainline is DOA.

An EA and everything was prepared, and it basically went nowhere. Especially after the auditors general finding out that CP was overcharging Metrolinx up to 800% for various track work.

Basically anything on CPs Corridor must be done by CP. That includes building additional track, and even operating the trains. All GO trains on the Milton line are driven by CP crews.

Ontop of that they reserve the right to use the track.

Electrification is not possible while CP own the line.

The only option is to move CP north and buy off the line, which is prohibitively expensive, as I outlined above. There is no middle ground option.

 

[rbt]

The only option is to move CP north and buy off the line, which is prohibitively expensive, as I outlined above. There is no middle ground option.

It's not that expensive (compared to some other programs underway); marketing is a problem for it though. People have never seen a GO system running as efficiently (for the end rider) as a TTC subway.

50.2km of 3 minute peak frequency express "subway" service for $200M/km is actually a pretty good price, particularly if it breaks even on operations. Similar service levels being rammed through by Ford are going beyond $700M/km, and requires a $100M/year annual subsidy to keep it running.

Metrolinx has a marketing challenge in that very few in the GTA believe a GO branded service ran run "useful" 416 service; where "useful" is defined as being as pleasant as TTC Line 1/2.