[crs1026]

^In North America, passenger trains have traditionally had internal systems to deliver potable water to riders. Not so in other places.

Society has moved away from drinking fountains in some respects..... but when one stares at the mounds of plastic water bottles we now consume, I'm not sure we are doing ourselves any favours.

If you look at other fleets (VIA's HEP fleet is one comparator) most have removed those potable water systems as a simple matter of economy. Too expensive to maintain and service, especially considering the currrent public health standards.

I don't have a problem with removing drinking water systems from GO trains ..... except..... it's another reason why those 3-4 hour "delays with passengers stranded on board" after incidents need to be seen as having health and safety implications.

- Paul

 

[Richard White]

Society has moved away from drinking fountains in some respects..... but when one stares at the mounds of plastic water bottles we now consume, I'm not sure we are doing ourselves any favours.

If you look at other fleets (VIA's HEP fleet is one comparator) most have removed those potable water systems as a simple matter of economy. Too expensive to maintain and service, especially considering the currrent public health standards.

One need only look as far as airplanes to explain why where should not be public water fountains in planes, trains or automobiles.

Aboard airplanes, the tanks are not given a through cleaning and disinfection unless you have something like Cholera in the water. There is a reason people tell you not to drink the water onboard an aircraft.

That being said, I can see a similar issue with GO trains. Do you honestly think they would disinfect every water tank EVERY day.

 

[lenaitch]

Growing up I remember public fountains in all sorts of places - including washrooms - and never a thought about hygiene. Then again, we drank out of garden hoses. Now it seems that no one can function without either a water bottle or Tim's cup in their hand. I do agree that we seem to have moved away from public fountains. Between the cost to maintain and the cost to test and certify at whatever the PHO standards are, plus concern about disease transmission and liability, I can certainly understand why most public and private institutions decided to get out of the game. Not only does the service provider have to prove the supply, they also have to prove the storage and delivery system.

I never thought about potable water on a commercial aircraft. Coffee on an aircraft is pre-loaded, they don't serve water in cups and I am only guessing that the tank for serving hot water for tea is separate from the one for flushing the toilet. I suppose if you want to drink from the faucet in the little bathroom sink you're on your own.

 

[Northern Light]

For clarity:

Regular drinking fountains in buildings and parks, supplied by treated, City water are very low risk as disease vectors. What risk there is, is not from the water, but from touching a handle or the like, but again, really not that high.

Ask Well: What Diseases Can You Get from a Water Fountain?

Public drinking water fountains are less germy — and less risky — than most people might think.

archive.nytimes.com

Drinking fountains on vehicles are somewhat different.

For a start, it will depend on what water supply they use to fill any tanks, presumably this would be a non-issue for GO, but may be an issue for some airlines, as local water supply quality assurance will vary.

Regulations as they pertain to potable water on trains and planes and disinfection of tanks can be found here:

Potable Water on Board Trains, Vessels, Aircraft and Buses Regulations

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

 

[reaperexpress]

Let’s not forget that there’s now 2-4 hour trips on GO, I think an amenity as simple as water should be provided. Up until COVID started they were lugging around an industrial sized tank full of emergency drinking water on the Niagara train.

We have 2-4 hour trips here in the Netherlands too, but no trains have drinking fountains. There are "drinkwater tappunten" (drinking water tap points) at most stations where you can fill your bottle up before you board the train. And you can refill it immediately upon arriving at your destination station.

Domestic trains have no food/drink at all, even intercity trains which travel much farther than the London GO train. International trains (Thalys, Eurostar, DB) have a café car where you could buy a bottle of water, but that's really only a pricy backup for people who forgot to bring their own bottle. The train isn't lugging around a water supply for everyone aboard.

 

[ShonTron]

Japan doesn’t offer any food service on most of its trains either. But big city stations have shopping malls attached, and even smaller ones will likely at least have a 7-11 or a Family Mart. Barring that, at least there are Japanese vending machines.

Union Station has an increasing number of restaurants and cafes where one can get beverages to bring aboard - though it’s still missing a fresh market. But most other GO stations - and many VIA stations too, like Belleville or Kingston - are in retail deserts, and the only vending machine might be an overpriced Coke/Dasani dispenser.

Having a policy of working water fountains/bottle fillers at major GO stations with hourly or better train service or major bus terminals (like Bramalea) would actually be a decent solution.

 

[T3G]

 

[reaperexpress]

If we do get drinking fountains I hope Metrolinx puts more effort into the French translation than the company who made my glasses:

 

[APTA-2048]

If we do get drinking fountains I hope Metrolinx puts more effort into the French translation than the company who made my glasses:
View attachment 436629

I’ve spotted a few odd French translations on GO signage. The most recent was translating “coach” as in train car to “autocar” as in motorcoach.

 

[reaperexpress]

I’ve spotted a few odd French translations on GO signage. The most recent was translating “coach” as in train car to “autocar” as in motorcoach.

Yeah especially in the first years when GO started adding French on signs, there were a lot of really awkward translations. Nowadays they seem okay - most things go through professional translation company.

 

[lenaitch]

Japan doesn’t offer any food service on most of its trains either. But big city stations have shopping malls attached, and even smaller ones will likely at least have a 7-11 or a Family Mart. Barring that, at least there are Japanese vending machines.

I've seen and heard that Japanese vending machines are at a whole other level.

A little extreme but, ya, that's what I'm kinda remembering.

If we do get drinking fountains I hope Metrolinx puts more effort into the French translation than the company who made my glasses:
View attachment 436629

That's northern Ontario French, where you fill up your truck at a place that sells 'gaz' and get 'les worms' to go fishing.

 

[Krypto98]

I believe these were deadheads that they decided to put into service, but for what reason they were cancelled, im not sure. Perhaps another train yard was built that meant deadheading wasn't needed, or CP complained about slowing down their network by stopping at the stations for in-service.

The 96 budget cuts killed them along with the Guelph and Barrie extensions back then

 

[ShonTron]

I just got an online survey, probably commissioned by Metrolinx, specifically about the Toronto-Kitchener-London train service. It first asked about whether you lived in the Toronto, Hamilton, K-W or London areas, whether you lived near a GO station, and if you are aware of the London train.

It then asked about specific reasons why you would/would not take the line, eventually getting to price, payment (whether being able to use Presto would make you more likely to use it), speed, as well as departure times and weekend service.

I responded that yes, I would consider it if there was a morning departure from Union, especially for going to places like Stratford.

Maybe this is nothing to read into, but maybe Metrolinx really is studying the route.

 

[ssiguy2]

Calling this a "service" to London is an insult to transit service everywhere and obviously Londoners think the same. Right now, 20 to 25 people board the train at London and even if that doubles that represents 0.01% of London's population. That's really going to make a big dent in London's horrific traffic woes. Seriously, who would offer a "service" for commuters that takes them 4 hours to get to their destination on an uncomfortable commuter train? Who thinks that anyone in London commutes to Toronto? Hell, Metrolinx didn't even bother to look at London bus schedules when planning this grand experiment or they would have realized that it is impossible to get to the train by transit in London as they leave earlier than London transit buses start running........... a transit service that requires you to own a car to take it.

All this while there is no transit service between London & St.Thomas a city of 45,000 that nearly borders the city that has 4 different highways connecting the 2 because traffic is so heavy. Made much worse by the fact that there is an operating rail corridor between the 2 that goes downtown to downtown and runs within 100 meters of one of London's biggest employers and a magnet for it's surrounding area............the London Health Sciences Centre, the biggest hospital in SWO. It also runs parallel to main connection between the city and St.Thomas, terminally clogged Wellington Road which is burdened with 48,000 vehicles a day on a 4 lane road.The added bonus is that this track is only used by one freight train a day.

Perhaps the $2 million a year spent to subsidize the sole GO train to Toronto would be better spent on providing a service connecting the two cities and carrying 20 or 30 times as many passengers but this is what happens when you put Toronto planners in charge of another city's transportation plan.

 

[ShonTron]

Funny thing you mention the lack of London Transit connection at the station at 5:30 - because that’s one of the questions/factors that came up in the survey. So it was through, at least.

As you know, I’m very much aware of the lack of bus service to St. Thomas/Elgin County, even though every other town near London has a bus connection - London/St. Marys, Exeter, Strathroy, Dorchester, even Tillsonburg a few days a week.