[Northern Light]

Remove all sensors; sharpen the doors' leading edges.

Word will get around.

Can we have those sharp edges perpetually lubed by just a hint of dark red paint?

 

[reaperexpress]

Remove all sensors; sharpen the doors' leading edges.

Word will get around.

In the UK and Australia they often put stickers with jagged patterns on the leading edge of the doors to subconsciously discourage people from stopping the doors.

 

[smallspy]

Personally I wouldn't trust an elevator door to reopen if it's less than about 40 cm's apart.

Elevator doors have a flap between the doors that acts as a safety system. If anyone or anything is in between the doors, the flap will contact it, and will cause the doors to reopen.

Subway and GO Train doors are a lot less capable of reopening - they do not spot things blocking their space (as elevator doors do) and their alarm only trips when the door has fully closed and the sensors detect an abnormal fit of the door edges. The whole cycle of alarm-stop-reopen-wait-close again takes longer and creates further pauses before the train can start moving.

The TR subway cars use both sensors in their door edges, and systems that take current/amperage readings on the motors. Should either system detect a blockage, the door will stop closing.

This is pretty standard around most of the transit industry now.

If someone forcibly pries open the doors, sure, they will stop closing - but that's real dirtbag behaviour which is very likely to disable the door, causing a delay to several hundred people. If you are one of those people who do that, well, I'm judging. Most adults do know better. (PS - I believe it's actually an offense that one can be ticketed for if caught).

- Paul.

The latest trend in the transit world is to design door systems so that the door can not be forced back open once it starts closing - the system will stop the closing of the door, but not reopen it. This helps prevent people holding the door as now doing so won't necessarily get them into the vehicle.

Dan

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I don’t understand how it’s inherently unsafe to stick your hand in a door. I and many other passengers do it all the time in elevator doors. Metrolinx has no control over passenger perceptions of safety at the doors unless it embarks on a campaign to remove safety protections from all elevators in the province. Even then, visitors from elsewhere will continue to put their hands in.

Passengers who act reasonably are entitled to safety, even if it annoys us.

Shoving your hand in an elevator door, and delaying it's movement. Might impact a few thousand people in the given building. However 1) there are usually other elevators in the building for people to use and 2) getting your hand/arm/leg stuck in the door might result in damage to that limb should the car move and the limb be partially in the moving car.

On a GO Train or subway train. Delaying the train affects not just the ~1000 people on the train but also delays all the trains downstream and if you happen to case an incident there is usually no alternative on that line for other riders to use and if you do get stuck suddenly to the outside of a moving train the possible injury is far greater, including death.

Yes both have safety systems designed to prevent injury but you wouldn't shove your finger in a live electrical socket despite it having a safety system (breaker) in place to prevent injury. Or more analogous, wouldn't try to walk under a garage door in the process of closing despite it having sensors to prevent closing on you.

 

[crs1026]

In the UK and Australia they often put stickers with jagged patterns on the leading edge of the doors to subconsciously discourage people from stopping the doors.

The not so gentle tingle of an electric fence might be constructive…

- Paul

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Could you link to these communications? I have never seen one from either company, and I regularly rode the TTC for years.

It is unreasonable to expect the average passenger, who has never had to pass a safety training course, should have a detailed understanding of how doors work, and how they differ between different installations (bus/streetcar/subway/commuter train/elevator).

The doors in an elevator or on a streetcar will re-open if you put your hand over a sensor. Passengers whose travel history consists entirely of elevators and streetcar could reasonably believe that all doors are like that, because their experience tells them it’s safe to put their hand in the door. It is unreasonable to expect them to understand the safety risks on a mode they rarely use.

Travelling Safely

Safety is our priority

www.ttc.ca

• Do not try to force open the car doors. You could get hurt and you could damage the door mechanism (which may prevent the train from proceeding).

[\quote]

 

[T3G]

Remove all sensors; sharpen the doors' leading edges.

Word will get around.

I liked the speedy door operation of the old M1 and H6 subway cars.

No one would charge these doors! And if they did, they'd learn REAL quick not to do that a second time.

 

[MovingBlock]

I am not in favour of switching to a remote sensing system that allows people to delay or pause the basic close-and-go function. The environment is different in terms of weather, dirt and grime, and potential for spurious objects to cause false operation. As well, ,the desired function is detecting “pinned” objects rather clearing the path for anyone approaching.

I think I should have been more clear when describing the system. In PSDs (globally), and on trams & trains in German-speaking countries, the sensitive edge is augmented with light barriers (of the type used in elevators) used to detect pinned objects after the door is fully closed (if you stick your hand in while closing, it will still close on you, but the vehicle won't be able to move). The problem with relying on a sensitive edge on it's own is that they regularly fail to detect flexible objects (though they are still good for regular crush protection).

So long as the door operator adheres to the exact schedule, as I believe GO staff generally do, then the door chimes and lights have to preempt the individual’s right to board. (That premise breaks down late at night after big events downtown, I will admit - GO needs to move more people sooner at times)

It is true that the door alarm & lights indicate that the passenger no longer has a right to board. If a passenger ignores them, the company still has an obligation to keep them safe if they get trapped in the door.

Passengers sometimes get trapped through no fault of their own (link).

Report 04/2016: Serious accident at Clapham South tube station

Serious accident involving a passenger trapped in train doors and dragged at Clapham South station, 12 March 2015

www.gov.uk

 

[Richard White]

I liked the speedy door operation of the old M1 and H6 subway cars.

No one would charge these doors! And if they did, they'd learn REAL quick not to do that a second time.

The H4s were horrible. I can't count how many bruises I got from them.

 

[T3G]

The H4s were horrible. I can't count how many bruises I got from them.

I mean, they gave you more than sufficient notice the doors were closing. That sounds like it's on you.

 

[Northern Light]

The H4s were horrible. I can't count how many bruises I got from them.

From standing in the door when it was closing?

 

[Northern Light]

Ok, so I note that we are all collectively running a tad off topic for the GO service thread. That said, I can't resist sneaking in something for the younger set.

Until 1995, the TTC didn't have a door chime............conductors blew a whistle. Here's a video from the last train where that happened:

Train Conductor Blows Whistle - Film & Video Stock

A TTC conductor blows a whistle to signal the closing of train doors, followed by a report that chimes will now replace whistles on the subway cars. PLEASE NOTE: News anchor and reporter image and audio, along with any commercial production excerpts, are for reference purposes only and are not...

www.efootage.com

 

[Coolibop]

While I find this whole door debate entertaining, is it really an issue, and/or has anyone confirmed this is why the 1 minute rule is being implemented?

 

[MovingBlock]

While I find this whole door debate entertaining, is it really an issue, and/or has anyone confirmed this is why the 1 minute rule is being implemented?

The reason it’s done at many other railways is that it reduces variability in departure times (and therefore reduces the amount of buffer time required in station areas).

 

[smallspy]

While I find this whole door debate entertaining, is it really an issue, and/or has anyone confirmed this is why the 1 minute rule is being implemented?

The rule is being implemented for two reasons, one overt and the other more subtle.

The overt - at busy stations such as Union, it can take a full minute (or more) for the CSA to close the doors on a train, especially if it is crowded and both sides are open. Closing the doors "early" - in the sense that they start the door closing procedure one minute prior to scheduled departure - is a means to help the trains get out of the station on time.

The subtle - this is also a means to get passengers aware that they need to get to the stations earlier, so that they are not rushing the doors as they close. This is why GO's messaging on this has been fairly quiet and with few clarifications. If they can get people thinking that they need to be at their home station - regardless of whether it is actually affected by the rule - earlier in order to make sure that they get on before the doors close, then all of the "bad press" has done its job.

It should also be noted that most systems around the planet have some similar rule already in place. Intercity systems will have such a rule at all stations, or at least the major ones, while commuter systems will do it only at the point of origin for a specific trip. The amount of time varies somewhat based on their operating practices and cultural details.

Dan