11th
Senior Member
Looks like line 4 will end at Pickering "Metropolitan" Centre.
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- Thread starter hw621
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yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
This has me thinking: "committed to uploading the TTC subway network and other strategic transit/transportation assets in the City of Toronto.”
Going out on a very hypothetical thought, what are the chances that Doug Ford wants to upload the streetcar system as well so that he via MTO via Metrolinx can bustitude the routes in the name of efficiency? Thus begin dismantling the system as buses are more flexible; getting his vendetta against streetcars.
Going out on a very hypothetical thought, what are the chances that Doug Ford wants to upload the streetcar system as well so that he via MTO via Metrolinx can bustitude the routes in the name of efficiency? Thus begin dismantling the system as buses are more flexible; getting his vendetta against streetcars.
MisterF
Senior Member
^It wouldn't surprise me. As long as this bunch of angry 5 year olds is in charge Toronto is screwed.
That would be a 22 km extension, costing something like $15 billion. They're just drawing lines on a map with crayons at this point. Building this at the expense of the Relief Line would be almost criminal. Fiscal responsibility my ass.
11th
Senior Member
It may also mean uploading DVP and the Gardiner.
kEiThZ
Superstar
This is what happens when a city/region decides that the only frequent and reliable service it will offer is subway service.
If the last decade had been spent building suburban rail instead of arguing subway vs. LRT, we wouldn't have this mess.
Now? All people know about fast and frequent long haul transit is the subway. And they ask their politicians why they can't get it.
And downtown Toronto is a write-off for the Tories. So the probably won't invest there.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
^ A lot if not all of these posts make alarming and perhaps even fantastical points. But in the present political situation, anything is possible/probable.
Two years ago, all the claims would be easy to dismiss as fear-mongering and extremism. Now they're scenarios that are very possible, since the rhetoric from the present QP regime makes Munchausen seem positively droll.
It's beyond bizarre, like kids on crack in a toy-shop before Christmas....with axes.
Two years ago, all the claims would be easy to dismiss as fear-mongering and extremism. Now they're scenarios that are very possible, since the rhetoric from the present QP regime makes Munchausen seem positively droll.
It's beyond bizarre, like kids on crack in a toy-shop before Christmas....with axes.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
The sad part is there are all sorts of ways this could be done correctly. There are arguments to be made for regionalism and uploading and expansion of the subway network, as well as our transit network at a general level. The Liberals made mistakes and left a lot of unfinished business BUT also laid some substantial groundwork for anyone sincerely interested in taking things to the proverbial next level.
Though time will ultimately tell, everything we're hearing suggests this will be done in the stupidest possible way. Talking about extending the subway into York - which so far entails an entirely sensible, short line through an urbanized corridor that connects to an established transit node and designated growth centre - in the same breath about talking about an obviously-nutty line to Pickering shows how overly broad and incoherent this will be. Not even "Pickering," - they just talk about "Durham," "Peel," and "York" - each of which has substantial rural portions - because they have no clue what might actually make sense; they just know where the votes are.
This won't be about improving connectivity and intensification; it will just be about "suburbs deserve subways!"
I keep hoping for the best - because I strongly believe we've hit the limits of what can be achieved with our current funding and governance models (the CodeRed report certainly covers the former very well, as well as much of the latter) but there is no reason to believe what the PCs are talking about will actually address any of it. And that will just fuel the already simmering Toronto-based fears of their interest (both with with the DRL specifically, and Toronto's local needs, generally) being diluted and thereby poison the well for what what really needs to be done.
Though time will ultimately tell, everything we're hearing suggests this will be done in the stupidest possible way. Talking about extending the subway into York - which so far entails an entirely sensible, short line through an urbanized corridor that connects to an established transit node and designated growth centre - in the same breath about talking about an obviously-nutty line to Pickering shows how overly broad and incoherent this will be. Not even "Pickering," - they just talk about "Durham," "Peel," and "York" - each of which has substantial rural portions - because they have no clue what might actually make sense; they just know where the votes are.
This won't be about improving connectivity and intensification; it will just be about "suburbs deserve subways!"
I keep hoping for the best - because I strongly believe we've hit the limits of what can be achieved with our current funding and governance models (the CodeRed report certainly covers the former very well, as well as much of the latter) but there is no reason to believe what the PCs are talking about will actually address any of it. And that will just fuel the already simmering Toronto-based fears of their interest (both with with the DRL specifically, and Toronto's local needs, generally) being diluted and thereby poison the well for what what really needs to be done.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Absolutely agreed, and there are many excellent examples of where this has been done. Must run, will discuss this in more detail later, but I'm overwhelmed by a sense of hopelessness for the GTHA embracing a way forward.
JasonParis
Moderator
If we are stuck with the Gardiner and DVP, then I don't really have an issue with them going the MTO way.
JasonParis
Moderator
Quoting myself... If it were to happen. I'd think the name Gardiner may disappear into history and just become part of the QEW (internally 451) all the way to the Don. The DVP also would likely become more of the 404, although, since the 404 has no other name, perhaps it could have a secondary DVP name all the way up to where it terminates in York Region.
pstogios
Senior Member
Don’t be surprised if/when an asinine plan like a subway to Pickering is seriously put forward by this government. I would expect anything.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
The streetcars aren't going anywhere. Toronto and QP just spent a small fortune replacing the entire fleet and ripping up the tracks, wires and buying hundreds of new articulated buses to replace them would be too much even for Ford.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Personally I hope that the smarter heads in the Ontario Cabinet are just reeling out the rope so Thug can hang himself the quicker. But I thought that about Trump, didn't I.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I wouldn't be surprised if Doug wants the DVP and Gardiner uploaded so that he can widen them.
