[golodhendil]

I agree with you on the hysteria issue. Hysteria generated by the media, quacks and antivaxxers, and the trust that certain segments of the society or the world place on them, has and continues to lead to disastrous consequences. Many of us recognize that many scientists are doing less than optimal jobs in communicating science to the general public (on epidemics and many other issues) in a world where our voice is increasingly being drowned out by conspiracy theorists, quacks and fadists on both the left and right, and indeed many are also falling into the unhelpful trend of overhyping our results. In recent years there have been a lot of discussions about this and it is currently one of the things that we are trying very hard to improve.

With regards to whether or not receiving a vaccination is a personal choice issue; it most certainly is as the individual should always have the right to decide what they place within their own body. What is not a personal choice issue is whether or not an unvaccinated individual should be permitted to interact with other individuals. This is were the rights of others should take presidence. This already exists within the health sector of Canada with healthcare workers being required to be inoculated against various conditions prior to entry into the Faculty of Nursing.

As you have acknowledged this is possible really only for certain sectors in certain situations, and is basically useless if it were to be applied generally. Trying to restrict or discourage the "freedom of movement" of people who refuse to take vaccines is every bit as difficult/impossible, if not more, than having them take the vaccines.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

it's a matter of risk VS. benefit. there are side effects with a vaccine just like anything else. and there's a one in a million chance of serious side effects. now, risk VS. benefit, if a vaccine is made that will prevent you from getting the regular flu but there's a one in a million chance of serious side effects, if the worst that can happen to you is having the shits for a few days, maybe it's not worth it to expose your self to a one in a million chance of getting a serious side effect. now if there's seriously contagious virus going around that turns your lungs into thick hard swollen tissue that is not capable of sustaining the breathing process, thus leading to your death, and being healthy means this will happen to you if exposed to the virus, maybe the risk of the vaccine isn't soo bad.

a question for golodhendil:

one in a million will get GBS from the H1N1 vaccine. since there's around 34 million people in canada which means 34 people will get this side effect.

how many people in canada have already died of a cytokine storm related to H1N1?

also, is there any difference between the side effects of the regular flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine?

 

[ACE]

.

 

[golodhendil]

it's a matter of risk VS. benefit. there are side effects with a vaccine just like anything else. and there's a one in a million chance of serious side effects. now, risk VS. benefit, if a vaccine is made that will prevent you from getting the regular flu but there's a one in a million chance of serious side effects, if the worst that can happen to you is having the shits for a few days, maybe it's not worth it to expose your self to a one in a million chance of getting a serious side effect. now if there's seriously contagious virus going around that turns your lungs into thick hard swollen tissue that is not capable of sustaining the breathing process, thus leading to your death, and being healthy means this will happen to you if exposed to the virus, maybe the risk of the vaccine isn't soo bad.

a question for golodhendil:

one in a million will get GBS from the H1N1 vaccine. since there's around 34 million people in canada which means 34 people will get this side effect.

how many people in canada have already died of a cytokine storm related to H1N1?

also, is there any difference between the side effects of the regular flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine?

Do you mean cytokine storm from the flu or from the vaccine?
I don't have specific data for Canada, but according to worldwide reports gathered by WHO (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/vpc_transcript_19_november_09_kieny.pdf), of 65 million doses administered by mid-Nov, the rate of severe adverse reactions is 1 in 200000, there had been less than 10 cases of GBS that can be linked to the vaccine, and the spectrum of reactions is similar to seasonal flu vaccines.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Do you mean cytokine storm from the flu or from the vaccine?
I don't have specific data for Canada, but according to worldwide reports gathered by WHO (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/vpc_transcript_19_november_09_kieny.pdf), of 65 million doses administered by mid-Nov, the rate of severe adverse reactions is 1 in 200000, there had been less than 10 cases of GBS that can be linked to the vaccine, and the spectrum of reactions is similar to seasonal flu vaccines.

i meant cytokine storm from the H1N1 virus.
is it even possible for a vaccine to cause a cytokine storm?

so the side effects from the regular flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine are the same. why the concern all of a sudden from the anti-vax folk?

 

[ACE]

.

 

[gristle]

Given that H1N1 could still mutate into something more lethal, 1% could still conceivably kill millions. Hopefully we will luck out in that regard.

It is ironic that some people will point to relatively low death rates and argue that there was never anything to worry about in the first place. However, if public health practitioners had been slack in the face of something as unpredictable as a new strain of flu, and had that flu been a little more lethal from the start, that one percent would be quite a significant number.

I certainly did not mind the efforts on the part of our public health people to educate. Nor did I mind the efforts to be prepared and the subsequent push for mass vaccination.

 

[golodhendil]

i meant cytokine storm from the H1N1 virus.
is it even possible for a vaccine to cause a cytokine storm?

so the side effects from the regular flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine are the same. why the concern all of a sudden from the anti-vax folk?

As far as I know I don't think vaccines, especially those without live viruses or even complete virion particles (like the flu vaccines) can cause cytokine storms. As for the current H1N1 strain, its exact mechanism of action is still unclear and I don't think there has been any solid links to cytokine storms yet; some evidence suggests there are increased bacterial coinfections, but again it's not yet certain.

I suppose the antivaxxers had always been lurking in the background, but because this current episode is so high profile, so hyped up by the media and because the vaccination is so widely recommended, they just get more to feed upon and attack than usual.