[MegaMax]

I'm in my late 20s and the proposed laws wouldn't affect me, but I am outraged by Dalton McGunity's new laws unfairly going after young drivers. He wants to suspend licences for anyone caught speeding, as if most drivers don't already. He wants to outlaw the classic university roadtrip, or even allow friends to share rides if there's more than one passenger. I don't mind so much the 0.0% alcohol requirement, but why only target 19-21 year olds?

MADD is now little more than the reincarnation of the Women's Christian Temperance Union. The father, who is quite wealthy, allowed his son to have 30-odd drinks and let him drive the car, killing himself and friends. A tragedy, but existing laws cover this - if the son was alive, he wouldn't be a victim, he'd be locked away. And better parenting would have helped.

Has McGuinty gone MADD?

 

[ShonTron]

Uh, MegaMax, the rules do say you need so many posts before creating a thread, but I think we can let this go. I'm a bit surprised no one has brought this up here yet.

I'm generally in agreement. Both the Star and Globe printed editorials today. The Globe is against it. The Star is asking "where's the beef?" and that the need for the new rules have to be explained and justified first.

I've been a bit too concerned as well by the Liberals' trend of legislating bans on things that they think are bad for us. Really, they'd be much better off re-introducing photo radar and setting it to say 120 or 125 on the 400-series highways. At least the parents would see how fast their children are going in their borrowed cars. Especially since the Liberals are so obsessed about speeding anyway in contrast to many other traffic laws. When will we see the crackdown on illegal aftermarket tinted windows - I find the drivers with those are really aggressive, and there's no ability to make any eye contact, which is often necessary.

 

[Hydrogen]

Could this thread remain active - with possibly a different title?

Considering that there are probably a number of members who fall into this age group, it would be interesting to read the impressions/reactions to these potential changes.

 

[Mustapha]

It must be quiet at Queen's Park.

Most of the road rage-y drivers are males in their 30s and 40s from my perspective. A few of them drive larger vehicles which is scary; watching a pickup or Excursion getting flung about on a busy road.

Funny comment above about the darker tinted windows - true.

Drunks - I also agree, enforcement is better than more regulations.

This is getting to the point its hard to remember the regs; you'll need to write them down and stick it in your sun visor.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

you'd think the possibility of your insurance going up a couple of grand would be a deterrent enough. some people are just stupid. they come in all ages.

 

[ShonTron]

I haven't been in this age group for some time now, so I am not affected. I just see the stupidity in this and feel sorry for people now coming into this.

The father leading this crusade is a wealthy man who let his son drive with three friends to the bar, where they had something like 37 drinks in total, they left the bar drunk, and crashed after aggressively speeding. There are tough laws against extreme speeding (often referred to now as Lotto 149), there are tough laws against drinking and driving. So because he sped and had passengers, now younger drivers are slapped with extreme restrictions meant to frighten younder drivers? The guy had a record of speeding. What about the fact that the father let him drive after all that? What about the bar owner that let these four younger people drink that much and then let them drive home? This was Muskoka, not Downtown Toronto. There's no transit in Muskoka.

And if the father didn't have thousands of dollars to spend on ads in newspapers and have some connections, would this have gone anywhere?

The point of graduated licencing is to be a probationary period for all new drivers so they develop driving skills. Once they've proven those skills, they should all be treated the same.

Bring back photo radar instead. Set it for 25% over the speed limit (125 on the 400-series highways, 100 on 80 km/h roads, 15 over on roads with limits 60 and lower). Increase enforcement of existing laws, that should have worked in this case. Reduce the legal limit if need be for newer drivers, or have a moderate punishment for driving say between 0.04 and 0.079.

 

[CDL.TO]

(often referred to now as Lotto 149)

"Lotto 149" is a registered trademark of CDL.TO, 2007.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Four trips to a party instead of one trip

Under the restrictions, instead of one trip with four friends, it will be be four trips. Waste of gasoline and more chance of incidents.
Will the army be exempt?
Instead, each time there is a speeding ticket or whatever, a notice should be sent to the parent or guardian of the incident by both phone and mail.

 

[Kitsune]

Arent these restrictions for G1 only? Thats what I've read - and keep in mind, G1 means you cant drive alone anyways. If its for G2 and even full G, then all you need is one overzealous cop giving some poor 21 year old a ticket for going 10 km/h over the speed limit and the kid future insurance rates are gonna skyrocket because he had his license suspended. Mcgunity is creating a province in which big brother is going to be constantly telling us what is right and what is wrong, I hate to see what other ideas he has.

 

[unimaginative2]

I'm not in the age group, but I'm totally with ShonTron and the Globe on this one.

 

[ShonTron]

Here's the Globe's editorial. The Star's isn't bad, but the Globe has a more direct message.

Adult, but not adult?
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

November 19, 2008 at 12:12 AM EST

As a father, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has explained, he was moved by the pleas of Tim Mulcahy, whose 20-year-old son was killed along with two friends in a car crash last summer. What parent wouldn't be? But then, most parents do not run provincial governments. If they were, one hopes they would do a better job of distinguishing reason from emotion than Mr. McGuinty has now done in proposing new rules for young drivers.

“We owe it to our kids to take the kinds of measures that ensure that they will grow up safe and sound and secure,†Mr. McGuinty said yesterday. Few would disagree, but then the Premier took a giant leap further. “If that means a modest restriction on their freedoms until they reach the age of 22, then as a dad, I'm more than prepared to do that.â€

Parents do not stop being parents when their sons and daughters turn 18 or 19. But children do stop being children. A 20- or 21-year-old is an adult, according to Canadian laws. If this Ontario bill is passed, that age group will become a unique group of “adult children†with their own set of laws – ones that would prohibit the consumption of any alcohol whatsoever before driving, even if it is an amount below the legal limit.

Moreover, the consequences of a proposed measure to also prohibit Ontarians aged 19 or younger from driving with more than one teenaged passenger would be much greater – even setting aside the difficulties of enforcing it. At a time when car-pooling is widely viewed as a beneficial means of reducing pollution, it would be irresponsible to effectively direct young people to drive on their own. And it would be equally irresponsible to discourage designated drivers for groups travelling to and from places where alcohol may be served.

The proposed passenger restrictions further suggest a glaring disconnect between the government and people who live outside large urban centres. In small towns, rural areas and many suburbs, large distances and a lack of infrastructure make cars necessary. To tell younger people that they cannot share rides would severely restrict the mobility of those who do not have access to cars of their own, in some cases cutting them off from much of their social interaction.

Perhaps these consequences did not occur to Mr. McGuinty in his rush to prevent more fatalities. But they might have, if he had thought less like an overprotective parent, and more like a premier.

 

[ShonTron]

The other measure being proposed by the transportation minister (and sounds like a done deal) is the legalization of double-trailer truck trains. After all the concers with trucking safety, why is this quietly being pushed through? There's been a number of truck crashes and rollovers lately. This will likely make things worse.

So while they make things extremely tough for younger drivers, they kowtow to the Ontario Trucking Association and MADD.

Are there no railways?

 

[doady]

I am 23, and the graduated license program is the reason I haven't even bothered to get a license yet. I am not sure what the new laws are, but seems there are even more restrictions now than ever before. Personally every day I see a lot of bad middle-aged drivers too, why not crack down on them too? Young people are always the ones to take the blame.

 

[cruzin4u]

When will we see the crackdown on illegal aftermarket tinted windows - I find the drivers with those are really aggressive, and there's no ability to make any eye contact, which is often necessary.

I don't see the correlation between tinted windows and aggressive driving. That's like saying females that have a layes on their rear view mirror are easy lays.

Most individuals that have tint on their vehicles, such as myself, do not get tint so that we can go out and drive like nutcases. We get tint because A) it's safer B) it helps in the summer when it's hot and C) it makes a car look better.

I am far from aggressive, infact I've been told I'm too courteous on the roads. I think it's just a coincidence that, of the people you saw aggressive driving, they had tinted windows.

Targetting the youth is, as Putty from Seinfeld would say, "bogus man". It's time to look at the taxi cab drivers who reek havoc on our streets daily. The 18 wheelers doing 100km/h on Hwy 7. The soccer moms in their minivans rushing to get to a hockey/soccer game. The middle-aged men rushing to the golf courses during the Summer in their porsches or ferrari's.

The reason why youth take the blame is because we are sympathetic when a young person dies in an accident, much like the 2 persian females last month. Accidents that involve attractive and young people will always get more media attention. And because of that, we are led to believe that young people cannot drive properly and are involved in more aggressive driving, which I do not believe.

 

[Mustapha]

I don't see the correlation between tinted windows and aggressive driving. That's like saying females that have a layes on their rear view mirror are easy lays.

Most individuals that have tint on their vehicles, such as myself, do not get tint so that we can go out and drive like nutcases. We get tint because A) it's safer B) it helps in the summer when it's hot and C) it makes a car look better.

I am far from aggressive, infact I've been told I'm too courteous on the roads. I think it's just a coincidence that, of the people you saw aggressive driving, they had tinted windows.

Targetting the youth is, as Putty from Seinfeld would say, "bogus man". It's time to look at the taxi cab drivers who reek havoc on our streets daily. The 18 wheelers doing 100km/h on Hwy 7. The soccer moms in their minivans rushing to get to a hockey/soccer game. The middle-aged men rushing to the golf courses during the Summer in their porsches or ferrari's.

The reason why youth take the blame is because we are sympathetic when a young person dies in an accident, much like the 2 persian females last month. Accidents that involve attractive and young people will always get more media attention. And because of that, we are led to believe that young people cannot drive properly and are involved in more aggressive driving, which I do not believe.

It really is a form of age discrimination, all these regs.

If they cracked down on tailgating too, that would solve most of our highway probs.