[IanO]

I was always told due to a lack of budget/volunteers and climate control.

 

[archited]

That should change -- ERR should not be an abbreviation for ERRor!

 

[CplKlinger]

Has there ever been any thought to running the streetcars in the winter or are they not able to? I've often thought how cool it would be to have these run over the winter season with fire pits and vendors (food, coffee, hot chocolate) set up at either end of the line. The Government Centre stop is a short 15 mins. walk to Victoria Park for skating and 5 mins. to the Legislature to walk the grounds and check out all the Christmas lights. The Whyte Ave. stop is obviously perfect for shopping, food, Ice on Whyte, etc. I imagine there would be sufficient demand for this, especially over the holiday season when lots of families getting together and visiting from out of town.

Nothing is finalized or confirmed yet, but the board is considering options for doing some service or charters in the Christmas season! We'll also be doing some holiday service at Fort Edmonton Park

 

[CplKlinger]

I was always told due to a lack of budget/volunteers and climate control.

Membership a big constraint for sure. Covid took a huge bite out of the number of active volunteers, and it's no wonder why considering a lot of the membership is elderly and most of their operations shut down for at least a year. Things are getting better, but we still couldn't go to five day/week operations this year (in 2019 we were at 7 days/week, now we're at 4).

Re: climate control, when streetcars don't run frequently enough the flangeways (gaps for the wheels at road crossings) clog with packed snow and ice, and it requires help from the city's LRT track crews to clear since they have heavy equipment and in contrast we do it all by hand. For special things like service or charters near Christmas, it can be do-able. But given the toll that regular operations have on volunteers and equipment (lots of hours need to be filled and lots of things break), we need to make improvements in other areas (IE more active volunteers and more rolling stock/maintenance capacity) before we should consider expanding the window for the regular season.

Please always remember that we are all volunteers and nobody is paid to do this

 

[CplKlinger]

That should change -- ERR should not be an abbreviation for ERRor!

As an aside, there's no pressure at all folks but their new website (https://edmontonstreetcars.ca) has a donation function and I encourage anyone who is able and willing to consider donating. Each contribution goes a long way. For example, there are 2,000 bridge timbers on the High Level Bridge (similar to rail ties but carved to the specific contour of where they're placed) and a lot will need to be replaced in the coming years. The urgent cases, somewhere between 50-200 (I forget the exact number) need to be replaced this coming spring. Each one costs more than $3,100 to replace, so they're facing tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in expenses for this one maintenence issue alone.

 

[archited]

So where is the City in all of this???

 

[scyeg]

Valid question. My family and I use it as transit several times during the summer to get from Whyte to downtown instead of driving/bus/LRT.

 

[thommyjo]

I’m increasingly convinced we’ll need to explore a big rebuild of the HLB and it should incorporate a lot of other goals/projects. Fix the 109st alignment. Better busing. LRT and maybe even HSR ROW. High Level Line concept & parks, street car preservation/expansion?

If a new bridge is built, the cost would be massive. But I think it might be the best option. Then the HLB can have its life significantly extended if serving only as pedestrian/biking/maybe streetcar experience.

I wonder if the province and feds would cover a big part of the bill if it was a billion dollar project.

 

[thommyjo]

 

[archited]

and attached to that diagram is a total lack of imagination...

 

[husky]

and attached to that diagram is a total lack of imagination...

Where exactly is there an opportunity for imagination?

 

[archited]

Where exactly is there an opportunity for imagination?

Okay... here's one take:

If I had access to $1.5 Billion (either by way of investment credit, collective investment group, or actual dollars) I would:
1. Offer to buy the High-level Bridge for, say, $50 million with the attached condition that I could build a new bridge in direct alignment with 109th Street whereby the necessary land for that development would be offered for One Dollar and agreeing that the new bridge would be developed with 2 traffic lanes North-bound and 2 traffic lanes South-bound.
2. Start with a northern section of the new bridge -- from rivers edge (north shore) to 97th Avenue -- here I would engage with my good friend Douglas Cardinal -- https://www.djcarchitect.com/ -- to design independent bridge piers that would also be mid-rise condominium towers on that north shore location and attached to those towers going northward would be the first section of the new "living bridge" deck. The drive aisles would be abutted by retail/hospitality on the west side and vertical planting walls on the east side (framing in the existing Legislature Building). Above and over 109th Street would see an indigenous mixed-use building developed that would provide housing and offices related to indigenous well-being, self-government institutions, cultural space and retail aimed specifically at Alberta's indigeneity. The connected building so provided would vary in height from 6 to 12 floors.
3. For the actual cross river section I would engage a different Architect/Engineer, Santiago Calatrava -- https://calatrava.com/, to design a span that would be independently supported but aligned with the other bridge sections. The support "piers" would not be allowed to touch the water of the North Saskatchewan. I would imagine a "flight-of-fantasy" design that is so typical of Santiago. This over-the-river span would be rife with riverine features -- waterfalls, cascading pools and fountains, all fed by river water pumped to the features and then allowed to descend back to the river.
4. The next piece continuing southward would be designed by good friend Gene Dub -- and would consist of the south-of-the-river piers that also double as condo towers -- here I would gently push Gene to revive his "cloud" concept that he proposed for the Citadel Theatre years back. As well as the towers I would have him design an aerial link west to the High-level Bridge so that that edifice would be tied into the new at several points along its length. As condos, I believe that these twin towers would see a strong sales demand -- exceptional river valley views, exceptional skyline views (both downtown and UofA focused), direct connection to the Kinsmen complex and Rossdale, direct connection to the river, and direct connection to the High-level Bridge -- "Fünf as they say auf Deutsch, Fünf".
5. The long continuous retail/hospitality span going southward from Dub-ville I would commission to the promising group called GEC Architects -- https://gecarchitecture.com/ with offices in both Calgary and Edmonton and (ptui, ptui, ptui) Toronto. They would be tasked with creative retail/hospitality and 2nd/3rd floor Service outlets and private offices; a massive under hillside parking structure and another twin/triplet high-rise connection to the High-level Bridge. While the roadway deck might remain straight (109th Street), the habitable structures might meander with overview decks, intensive landscaping, curving pathways, and additional river valley connections.
6. The node that is 109/Sask.Drive/88th Ave./Garneau I would turn over to Gehry & Co. -- https://www.foga.com/ to design a Garneau Plaza with Hotel and apartment towers -- a 109.Sask.Drive node. I would close off the road that descends to the 105th Street Bridge (saving the western part of that conveyance for Indoor Olympic facilities -- Diving pool, handball and squash courts, gymnastics, wrestling and boxing venues -- all indirectly connected to the UofA, thereby expanding their sports offerings to students). Gehry's design would undoubtedly become an iconic feature of the southside of Edmonton, adding to the village focus of the university.
7. Built over the tunnel entrance to the the ERR that opens up onto the High-level bridge I would commission Andrew Bromberg -- https://www.andrewbromberg.com/ -- to design a faculty building dedicated to Urban Design and Architecture (it would be his second major structure in Edmonton after the Winspear Centre). Once completed I would work out a "share" agreement with all of Edmonton's universities, including the on-line Athabasca U. and NAIT.
8. Once all of the foregoing was operational I would then engage Heatherwick Studios -- https://www.heatherwick.com/ -- to redesign the High Level Bridge (keeping its iconic structure intact), converting the traffic deck into high-end retail and hospitality venues; adding additional glassed-in night-club space on top of the concrete piers (accessed by elevator and stairs from the one-time vehicle deck) and extending the upper deck to form a linear park from MacEwan U. to the Strathcona Farmers Market providing an MUP that affords bicycles, electric conveyances, skate boards and pedestrians that whole-length connection between those two nodes. And upgrading the ERR conveyance to year-round operation, featuring a mid-deck station in the centre of the refurbished High-level Bridge. Heatherwick would also be engaged to add to the river valley park with platforms that descend down the river valley embankments a la Little Island (NYC) and 1000 trees (Shanghai).

That is where I see room for imagination.

 

[YEG imagineer]

Any thoughts on how the HSR could fit in with your ideas

 

[archited]

I don't think HSR works down 109th Street -- even in a cross-river mode. I believe the Hub for Edmonton's HSR venture is ideally situated at 76th Avenue on CP land just east of Gateway boulevard, with 76th Avenue punching through the CP lands to provide a secondary east/west thoroughfare in addition to Whyte. The lands for the CP redevelopment I envision ultimately being broken up this way -- the lands north of 76th Avenue become expansion for "Old Strathcona" Retail and Hospitality subtending Residential (it could become an area that features solid timber and Cross-laminated Timber constructs); the lands south of 76th Avenue would be a great area for light industrial experimentation in tech, AI, Hydrogen off-shoots and business start-ups related to those endeavors.
How to connect infrastructure to that location?
One big opportunity that was missed by our "woke" City Council was the development of the Gondola. I could see that conveyance (greener than anything that has been built so far) connecting downtown to the 76th Avenue Hub. I could see an aerial tram built along 76th Avenue that would pick up passengers from LRTVL south and from the Capital Line south of U of A.; I could see a community-binding ERR connection that ties U of A and Old Strathcona together; I could see another ERR extension that brings Bonnie Doon to the Whyte and Gateway node and, thereby, the new transit centre.
What elements could compose the 76th Avenue Transit Hub?
Well the HSR for one. As noted with several thread-lings in the General Discussion coodishville there is a future thrust related to electric VTOL aircraft -- this could also be a hub for that venture that could reach the Edmonton hinterland with substations all over northern and central Alberta (VTOLs and runway landing aircraft are an anathema, one to the other -- so some distance between the two works wonders). Bus lines would be well served from this southern City location adjacent to Gateway and one block therefrom removed from Calgary Trail, both of which connect to Edmonton's ring road freeway Nexuses North, South, East and West. Taxicabs, Uber and Lyft could all have Edmonton-wide connections from this location. I am trying to say that this is the ideal Transportation Hub location for Edmonton with access by many means and from many directions.

 

[erudyk_29]

I agree that the CP lands in Strathcona is the future hub of regional rail transit in Edmonton, there's just not really a practical way to expand a large rail corridor from the south to downtown. This could become a heavily densified with a large bike hub as well. Not sure what the "woke[ness]" of council has to do with the gondola not being built. Though I do agree that it's a missed opportunity, urban gondola's are not a gadget bahn and are a legitimate mode of transit used around the world from Austria to Colombia they're especially great for hilly and tough terrain like the river valley. Eventually, the Metro Line should make its way either down or parallel to Whyte Ave creating an LRT connection to this hub, and eventually following a replacement of the High Level and double tracking of the streetcar, a low-floor LRT line running across on to West Jasper and 124st in the North and down this new hub in the south creating a North-SouthmLRT connection.