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waterloowarrior

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edit: this appears to be separate from the ON-QC study....

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High-speed rail links urged for Ontario
Economic success depends on network, report says
December 20, 2008
SANDRO CONTENTA
Toronto Star
FEATURE WRITER

A multi-billion-dollar high-speed rail system that links cities in the Greater Golden Horseshoe is crucial to Ontario's long-term economic success, according to a report commissioned by economic advisers to the premier.

The report also calls on the Ontario government to consider leading the way in the switch from gasoline-powered cars to plug-in hybrid vehicles. As a possible target, it proposes that 25 per cent of all vehicles on the roads be plug-in hybrids by the year 2021 – requiring a major expansion of the province's energy infrastructure.

Written by a team of civil engineers at the University of Toronto, the report estimates the total cost of infrastructure work at up to $27.5 billion. But they say their recommendations address the two most pressing issues today – global warming and global recession.

The report proposes 560 kilometres of high-speed electric track that runs from Toronto north to Orillia, east to Peterborough and west to a corridor that includes Waterloo, Hamilton and Niagara Falls. It would take at least a decade to build and cost anywhere from $4 billion to $20 billion, depending on the route and technology chosen.

The rail system would help create a high-density "mega-region" by improving transportation and attracting what the report calls well-paid "creative" jobs, such as those in aerospace, finance and telecommunications.

"A high-speed rail network knitting Ontario's cities together could revolutionize the province's role within the continental and global economic systems," it says.

Called Infrastructure and the Economy: Future directions for Ontario, the 30-page report was delivered Thursday to economist Roger Martin and urban theorist Richard Florida, appointed by Premier Dalton McGuinty to chart a course to economic prosperity. Its recommendations will likely form part of the final report to the premier, expected in February.

The report's authors, a four-person team led by civil engineer Chris Kennedy, note that governments have historically unleashed massive infrastructure programs in times of crisis, such as the current economic and environmental issues.

The provincial government plans a 15 per cent reduction in greenhouse gases, below 1990 levels, by 2020, and an 80 per cent reduction by 2050. The report describes Ontario's plan to phase out coal-burning energy and Metrolinx's proposed transit projects during the next 25 years as important steps.

But it adds that Ontario's population is expected to increase to about 15 million by 2021 – with half of the 2 million growth in the Toronto region – and more needs to be done.

In an interview, Kennedy said Ontario is in a good position to encourage auto companies to produce more hybrid cars now that they are seeking bailout money.

A scenario in which 25 per cent of Ontario cars are plug-in hybrids would require an extra 2,500 megawatts of electricity during peak nightly hours, when most would be recharging their cars. It would cost between $5 billion and $7.5 billion to build the extra nuclear and wind power needed, spread over a 10-year period, the report says.

"The reduction in air pollution within cities would be noticeable and at times dramatic," the report says, adding it would also reduce imports of fossil fuels, which in 2004 cost Ontario almost $18 billion.

The move could also put Ontario at the forefront of the emerging hybrid auto sector, it argues.

The report emphasizes "mobility hubs" built around high-speed rail stations that connect passengers to local buses, trains and subways. The government should zone land around these hubs to allow for a high-density mix of residential and commercial buildings, it says.

Highway congestion would be reduced by high-speed trains that can travel, depending on the technology used, from 130 to 400 km/h, the report says. This high-speed link could eventually be extended to Ottawa, Montreal, Chicago and New York, the report says.
 
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HSR to Orillia? Colour me skeptical. Unless they're thinking we should make it into a bedroom community.
 
Well it does say between 130 and 400 km/h, so the trains to Orillia would probably be on the lower end of that scale. These reports tend to use the term "high speed" loosely. It's odd that they consider 130 to be high speed, but existing VIA trains that go 160 are considered "regular rail".

Even that map is a pretty small rail system compared to most countries. If Ontario's rail system compared to, say, Scotland's, we'd have rail service not only to Orillia, but towns like Lindsay, Collingwood, Owen Sound, Niagara-on-the-Lake, and Wasaga Beach.

The Hamilton-Kitchener link is a no-brainer as well, it's a crime that you can't take a train between two of Ontario's biggest cities.
 
The map really appears to be an inter-regional rail system, somewhere to fill the niche between GO and VIA, an idea I've suggested several times before. The Hamilton-Kitchener link is really interesting, as there has not been a direct link before, and not a non-backtracking rail corridor between the two since CN and CP (previously Lake Erie and Northern electric) abandoned their corridors between Brantford/Paris and Cambridge. It would also mean a welcome return of rail service to Orillia, but that would mean a new alignment through Barrie at least.

On the Lakeshore and Kitchener-Toronto routes, these could supplement GO express peak trains as well.

There's a lot to debate. I don't think such a system needs super-high speed rail, but these should be electrified, high-order rail corridors with very limited stops and minimal (if any) level crossings. Obviously, some existing corridors would have to be used - the Lakeshore Line specifically should be at a minimum four tracks to handle GO locals (running every 15 minutes), GO rush hour expresses, inter-regional, VIA locals and VIA expresses.

I can't see medium-trip rail going up to 400km/h - I see a maximum of 220km/h or so - much like say Acela Express does between short-distance stops on the NEC like between Baltimore, BWI and Washington Union, where even on a legacy rail corridor it can exceed 200 km/h. MARC trains, even with more stops, can go 175 km/h on that corridor. There's no level crossings, and it is four tracks, and minimal freight movements.

So I can see mostly current rail alignments being used, particularly in the south. Peterborough might need a new route, but should be able to use the abandoned Peterborough-Millbrook ROW and go southwest from there towards Oshawa. The Kitchener-Toronto link really should go through Brampton, if only to connect to Pearson Airport, but might need a new alignment (missing downtown Brampton) or for CN freights to shifted off that route in favour of a 407/hydro route and connect via CP through Milton.

The Niagara link misses the point if it doesn't serve St. Catharines, and should go to Downtown Buffalo with a joint immigration/customs facility - with Canadian pre-clearance.
 
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I really, really wish something like this would come true, but we have to face it, until there are long term revenue tools directed specifically to transit, a plan like this is simply unaffordable for us, with so many additional priorities.

One could make the case that making such an investment is part of a wider economic policy to draw these sorts of industries to the province, but with light rail, and high speed rail being well developed, this is not so much the case as with wind or solar power, or generally just investing in green energy and conservation technologies.
 
High speed rail is great, but basic questions including possible, realistic ridership levels must be included when determining where this should go. Looking at the map that accompanied this article, is there enough ridership to justify sending high-speed rail to Orilla or North Bay? These decisions seem so politicized that at no time does any politician think 'what would be the most bang for the taxpayers buck? or where can we spend money to effect the most commuters?' This is not rocket science. Is it not better to spend a few billion where it will stimulate the most economic return instead of running white elephants? There are far better areas to spend transit infrastructure money then on any high-speed rail lines in Ontario, namely the DRL.
 
^
Agreed. With a few exceptions*, this seems like one of the least practical ideas yet. Although, "high speed rai" in North America can refer to virtually anything that isn't being pulled by a mule so maybe I am just wrongly imagining a bullet train in the mighty metropolis of Orillia. This is the problem with so called stimulus. It supersedes proper judgment criteria (utilization, cost, return, environmental impacts) with fluff about job creation. That may sound tempting for a politician, but we can create 'jobs' by just paying people to dig holes and fill them back up. Ignoring the myriad of economic issues this brings up, if Canada really does have a 400b 'infrastructure' backlog it makes no sense to arrange what to tackle on job creation. We will just get an anglophone Mirabel instead of projects that could achieve more for less.

*I've often thought a rail link -not 'hsr' but just relatively fast and hopefully limited stop- to Niagara Falls would be a good idea. Toronto needs to do more to brand Niagara Falls as a tourism attraction of the city, sort of like a day trip attraction. I guess something like the Great Wall of China and Beijing. As far as I know, the only non car way to travel to Niagara atm is the bus or possibly a hellishly inconvenient VIA train. I have no idea if this is cost feasible, but it seems at least logical.
 
I don't think we'll be seeing bullet trains to Orillia. This part of the article is worth quoting again:

Highway congestion would be reduced by high-speed trains that can travel, depending on the technology used, from 130 to 400 km/h, the report says.

A 130 km/h train is entirely reasonable for a city like Orillia. IMO, it's the bare minimum rail service that Orillia should have, as well as other communities not on the map, like Collingwood for example. Here's the map. Keep in mind it's a Toronto Star graphic so its accuracy is open to debate.

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A 130 km/h train is entirely reasonable for a city like Orillia. IMO, it's the bare minimum rail service that Orillia should have, as well as other communities not on the map, like Collingwood for example.

Really? I don't think Orillia merits any service. The town itself is only 30 odd thousand strong, which isn't enough to support much of anything. Its far enough away from Toronto that it isn't a satellite city (no commuter traffic). It is really just a gateway to a part of cottage country. And lets be clear here, nobody will take a train to their cottage. I've done it, it sounds very quaint and 19th century but it is a pain in the ass. There is nothing worse than being stuck in a cottage with no car 40km from the nearest shop that would sell toilet paper, let me say.
 
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A high-speed rail network around Toronto is a good idea BUT, as stated above, thought needs to be given as to whether the destinations can support it. Barrie, Peterborough and Niagara Falls probably can IF THE TRAIN MAKES INTERMEDIATE STOPS and if the schedule allows people to make a return trip in one day - with time at the destination. (Tourists to Niagara Falls, commuters to Toronto.) Of course, if the "express' stops too often it's not high speed any more!
It would make more sense to extend GO service to Peterborough (hello, Mr Flaherty!) and Niagara Falls and increase the GO train service to Hamilton and Barrie. Some GO trains could then be made Express, if the demand were there
 
Overall this proposal is fairly reasonable and for the most part is more a collection and different interpretation of plans already being considered.

Oshawa - Peterborough is really just a slightly different version of the plan for rail service to Peterborough which, as some articles mentioned, was planed to be 'high speed' (basically anything over 160 km/h) so this is nothing new.

Oshawa - Toronto - Mississauga - Hamilton is the Lakeshore corridor which Metrolinx has mentioned many times as a target for upgrading and electrification. And given this is a very urban corridor there are limits to maximum speeds due to noise and traffic so the current plan really covers this section nicely.

Toronto - Barrie has been an ongoing project of GO so the only new part is the extension to Orillia. Again, the idea of applying standards that would allow trains to operate at high speeds (say 160km/h - 200km/h) is not all radical and probably rather reasonable and achievable for much of this line.

Mississauga - Guelph - Waterloo is another line that is currently being studied by GO and given that K-W is a fairly large and important center it makes total sense to consider improving rail infrastructure to support much more frequent and faster commuter and intercity service.

Hamilton - Niagara Falls. Probably a corridor that would need a lot of work, but one that also makes a lot of sense. VIA has mentioned a number of times over the years it would like improved service to Niagara Falls so this is fine project for them.

Waterloo- Kitchener - Hamilton. The only section that might be good, or might not, and would depend on studies determining how much traffic it would generate. But, given that this would connect two major cities in the GTA this seems like a fair project too.

Really with the exception of service to Kitchener-Waterloo, which might actually warrant a new line dedicated to intercity, TGV type service (a few years down the road), most of these projects are going to be upgrading existing lines, and fall well within what is currently being discussed. Lines supporting speeds of over 200 km/h are not necessary (with the possible exception above) and by aiming for high operating speeds and modernizing infrastructure it would go a long way towards making intercity rail service in the GTA (or Golden Horseshoe) efficient, and desirable.
 
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Really? I don't think Orillia merits any service. The town itself is only 30 odd thousand strong, which isn't enough to support much of anything. Its far enough away from Toronto that it isn't a satellite city (no commuter traffic). It is really just a gateway to a part of cottage country. And lets be clear here, nobody will take a train to their cottage. I've done it, it sounds very quaint and 19th century but it is a pain in the ass. There is nothing worse than being stuck in a cottage with no car 40km from the nearest shop that would sell toilet paper, let me say.
Take a look at the rail systems of other countries with similar sized towns and cities and similar densities. Most towns Orillia's size have rail service. It's a lot more attractive when you consider that it would be one stop on a line to North Bay, going through Barrie, Gravenhurst, Bracebridge, and Huntsville instead of the current line around the east shore of Lake Simcoe. If anything it would be more cost effective than what we have now.

Another good candidate for a new line would be Wasaga Beach-Collingwood-Owen Sound, especially since none of them are on major highways and they have fairly centralized summer and winter attractions.
 

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