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Voltz

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Well of course the HSR would use the Weston Sub on its way up to KW the way that GO does already. The elevated spur line off of that corridor and dead-end terminal being constructed for the UPX though would be pretty useless for HSR and would have to be abandoned if UPX itself was replaced by the high speed service.

The airport spur could probably only be used for a people mover from the airport to the railway corridor, or there could even be an extension of the Finch LRT that runs along it and also serves as a airport people mover.
 

nfitz

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The airport spur could probably only be used for a people mover from the airport to the railway corridor, or there could even be an extension of the Finch LRT that runs along it and also serves as a airport people mover.
I'd think that if you were to build a people mover in the future to connect from the airport to the tracks, the most likely thing would be to simply build something up Airport Road, and connect in to the existing Malton GO/VIA station right across the street from the airport property. Whether a people mover or simply an extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT I don't know ... though I can see regional connectivity advantages of having a connection from the Kitchener line to the Transitway terminal at Renforth/Eglinton.

I'd think the existing UPX track would continue as an express service to downtown. It's not like they'd eliminate that in the future, and it's not like anyone is about to build heavy-rail for high speed into the airport itself.
 

Voltz

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I'd think that if you were to build a people mover in the future to connect from the airport to the tracks, the most likely thing would be to simply build something up Airport Road, and connect in to the existing Malton GO/VIA station right across the street from the airport property. Whether a people mover or simply an extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT I don't know ... though I can see regional connectivity advantages of having a connection from the Kitchener line to the Transitway terminal at Renforth/Eglinton.

I'd think the existing UPX track would continue as an express service to downtown. It's not like they'd eliminate that in the future, and it's not like anyone is about to build heavy-rail for high speed into the airport itself.

If there is still room for the UPX trains on the corridor and it is still economical to operate them them then leave them in, but I doubt it will be.
 

MrsNesbitt

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It just seems very possible to me that, dependent upon travel times and fare pricing, with HSR the demand for the UPX will dwindle, and the service that Metrolinx has spent so much time touting and promoting will become superfluous. This of course speaks to why the UPX is flawed in the first place but I digress.
 

nfitz

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If there is still room for the UPX trains on the corridor and it is still economical to operate them them then leave them in, but I doubt it will be.
I can't see the elimination of an airport train. I don't think any city has ever done that.
 

Filip

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I can't see the elimination of an airport train. I don't think any city has ever done that.

I'd say it all depends on the end product of the HSR. Will it simply stop at Etobicoke North (near Pearson) or will there be an underground spur with a station in the terminal area? If there's an underground spur with a station, then UPX is toast. Otherwise, there is still a purpose given it will be the only Toronto-Pearson service stopping directly at the airport.
 

Platform 27

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It just seems very possible to me that, dependent upon travel times and fare pricing, with HSR the demand for the UPX will dwindle, and the service that Metrolinx has spent so much time touting and promoting will become superfluous. This of course speaks to why the UPX is flawed in the first place but I digress.

I think it's highly, highly unlikely you'd see HSR running Toronto-London every 15 minutes, and without that kind of frequency an airport link doesn't really work.

Plus, even if they were to merge the services and run every 15 minutes, the demand is likely quite uneven which would make things quite uneconomical to operate. For example, I could see a 6 car high speed train pull out of Union with 4 cars's worth of capacity taken up by purely Union-YYZ passengers, they'd all alight at YYZ, their place would be taken by 1 car's worth of YYZ boardings bound for points west, and the train would then take off towards London half-empty.
 

TOareaFan

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I think it's highly, highly unlikely you'd see HSR running Toronto-London every 15 minutes, and without that kind of frequency an airport link doesn't really work.

Plus, even if they were to merge the services and run every 15 minutes, the demand is likely quite uneven which would make things quite uneconomical to operate. For example, I could see a 6 car high speed train pull out of Union with 4 cars's worth of capacity taken up by purely Union-YYZ passengers, they'd all alight at YYZ, their place would be taken by 1 car's worth of YYZ boardings bound for points west, and the train would then take off towards London half-empty.

If the services merged would it not be more likely that 1 outa every 4 westbound trains from Union would continue west (somehow) to London and the other 3 would "short turn' back to Union?
 

Voltz

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It just seems very possible to me that, dependent upon travel times and fare pricing, with HSR the demand for the UPX will dwindle, and the service that Metrolinx has spent so much time touting and promoting will become superfluous. This of course speaks to why the UPX is flawed in the first place but I digress.

I think that 15 Minute GO Train service would draw much larger number of UPX riders away than HSR trains would, and would be a far more appropriate means to serve those riders than HSR trains would anyway. I would say it is most likely that a HSR stop for the Airport would be on the corridor and some kind of shuttle would operate to the terminals, so there would certainly be a GO Train stop there as well. Continuing to operate UPX after this point would make even less sense, the railway corridor would be hard pressed to fit all these services in.
 

TOareaFan

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I think that 15 Minute GO Train service would draw much larger number of UPX riders away than HSR trains would, and would be a far more appropriate means to serve those riders than HSR trains would anyway. I would say it is most likely that a HSR stop for the Airport would be on the corridor and some kind of shuttle would operate to the terminals, so there would certainly be a GO Train stop there as well. Continuing to operate UPX after this point would make even less sense, the railway corridor would be hard pressed to fit all these services in.

As a tribute to the past, the history of the airport they could even call that GO Train stop "Malton"...;)
 

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If the services merged would it not be more likely that 1 outa every 4 westbound trains from Union would continue west (somehow) to London and the other 3 would "short turn' back to Union?

Then what you're talking about isn't really a merged service. You'd effectively have 3 UP Express trips per hour and one HSR trip per hour, spread around the clockface, with fare integration between them.
 

nfitz

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I'd say it all depends on the end product of the HSR. Will it simply stop at Etobicoke North (near Pearson) or will there be an underground spur with a station in the terminal area? If there's an underground spur with a station, then UPX is toast. Otherwise, there is still a purpose given it will be the only Toronto-Pearson service stopping directly at the airport.
I can't see there being a underground spur, that would really sacrifice high speed service between Kitchener and Toronto, for a small minority going to the airport. I'd think it would simply stop at Malton, rather than Etobicoke North; then passengers wouldn't have to double back to the airport.
 

BMO

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they could probably, in the future, add a connection to the airport spur from the west and run airport Express trains from London/Kitchener. Seems kinda convoluted to have the airport express train, with another connection to a bunch of other trains all the way at Milton GO station. The airport station has been built now and I guess it kinda forces any route that services the station to make it a terminal station. Based on my experience with travelling around Europe, the best airport experiences were those where all the transit and transportation were consolidated in one area for people to pick and choose what to take. It was better in terms of wayfinding and because it gives travellers the option to use the transportation that best fits them providing connections from one spot to local, regional and national destinations.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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Planning planning planning. It's unfortunate that the GTAA could not get other agencies to come on board in construction of a multimodal transit terminal at the airport, and airport is a transport node/hub if there ever was one. They went ahead out of necessity and built the people mover and (along with Metrolinx) made plans for the UPX. Now that construction has nearly completed we have officials 'coming to jesus' so to speak and wanting to create a hub and/or add service to the airport region and we are now stuck with a UPX station that is incapable of accommodating additional transit modes.
 

TOareaFan

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Planning planning planning. It's unfortunate that the GTAA could not get other agencies to come on board in construction of a multimodal transit terminal at the airport, and airport is a transport node/hub if there ever was one. They went ahead out of necessity and built the people mover and (along with Metrolinx) made plans for the UPX. Now that construction has nearly completed we have officials 'coming to jesus' so to speak and wanting to create a hub and/or add service to the airport region and we are now stuck with a UPX station that is incapable of accommodating additional transit modes.

Perhaps that is why Minister Murray keeps using the words "Terminal 2" in his talks/tweets.....maybe there is a plan to build a different kind of transit interface at the airport.
 

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