[Sunnyside]

So, "this will cost us a trillion, but our plans will only cost us $300 billion. We're saving the province *$700 billion* dollars!!

It's an absolute shame that some people believe this BS

BS as it is, don’t hate the player, hate the game….

 

[PL1]

BS as it is, don’t hate the player, hate the game….

I resent the portion of the electorate that doesn't bother to learn anything about how our electoral system works. Or believe they are voting for the leader of X party (unless they are in that person's electoral district)

 

[Sunnyside]

I resent the portion of the electorate that doesn't bother to learn anything about how our electoral system works. Or believe they are voting for the leader of X party (unless they are in that person's electoral district)

I do wish more people understood what they were voting for, and to a lesser extent who. But most are unaware as to which levels of government do what anyway.

At some level, you do vote for who you see on the ballot, be it a name or party. But to only do so is blinding; come join me in Hamilton and anyone can see what it looks like.

On the bright side, it means most political plays like this can be broken down into what they are trying to say to voters. You’ll still get a good read on a situation.

Only substance can indicate substance, and perhaps it’s better that way.

 

[EnviroTO]

Prediction if they build this:
- 7 years the congestion will be abysmal because of all the construction impacts
- opening day people will think wow this is amazing... it worked! Nevermind that ending construction alone would have reduced congestion.
- 7 years later it will be just as bad as the day before construction started.

Even the MTOs own study shows 413 congested... it doesn't exist at all, is on the periphery of the city, and doesn't solve full east-west connectivity. How could 401 lanes through the middle of the city and the only cross city route not just be absorbed almost instantly?

Will it add capacity? Sure. Will it do anything for congestion? No. So it comes back to what is the real problem to be solved and other means should be explored.

 

[Haljackey]

Even the MTOs own study shows 413 congested... it doesn't exist at all, is on the periphery of the city, and doesn't solve full east-west connectivity. How could 401 lanes through the middle of the city and the only cross city route not just be absorbed almost instantly?

The 413 is planned to be built as a 4-6 lane freeway like the original 407 cross section- it is designed in mind for future expansion. From what you're saying, we should be building the ultimate design from the ground now to save money and construction headaches in the future, or nothing at all.

 

[urbancog]

or nothing at all

 

[chrisw]

The 413 is planned to be built as a 4-6 lane freeway like the original 407 cross section- it is designed in mind for future expansion. From what you're saying, we should be building the ultimate design from the ground now to save money and construction headaches in the future, or nothing at all.

The 413 protection will be for a 10 lane freeway. On top of that there's also protection for a transitway, who knows if that will ever get built.

 

[PL1]

The 413 protection will be for a 10 lane freeway. On top of that there's also protection for a transitway, who knows if that will ever get built.
View attachment 601536

Why would they not build it with centre barriers from the get go??

 

[afransen]

The 413 protection will be for a 10 lane freeway. On top of that there's also protection for a transitway, who knows if that will ever get built.
View attachment 601536

Is this badly written, or are they protecting a 60m transitway as part of the 170m ROW, and on top of that an additional transit corridor?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Why would they not build it with centre barriers from the get go??

$$$. Building it as a 10-lane facility would add cost for a facility that doesn't have the demand yet.

The original plan was for only part of the 413 to be 6 lanes, yet alone 10. They are now building it as 6-lanes across the entire corridor, but 10 would be overkill.

It's being protected for 10 lanes like the 407 was when it was built, which means it will be inexpensive for MTO to add the lanes as they are needed.

 

[chrisw]

Is this badly written, or are they protecting a 60m transitway as part of the 170m ROW, and on top of that an additional transit corridor?

Yeah, I was also confused.

I think it's just bad ordering. First, and third paragraphs, 10 lane highway and land protected for transit corridor. Second paragraph gives details on the combined ROW width.

 

[Leo_Chan]

$$$. Building it as a 10-lane facility would add cost for a facility that doesn't have the demand yet.

The original plan was for only part of the 413 to be 6 lanes, yet alone 10. They are now building it as 6-lanes across the entire corridor, but 10 would be overkill.

It's being protected for 10 lanes like the 407 was when it was built, which means it will be inexpensive for MTO to add the lanes as they are needed.

Is having the 6 lanes in their final centre position with concrete barrier more costly than having them separated with a grass gap in between? Such as needing longer on and off ramp? Or are they other considerations like having it start off taking up more of the right of way rather than leaving gaps on the edges?

 

[afransen]

Is having the 6 lanes in their final centre position with concrete barrier more costly than having them separated with a grass gap in between? Such as needing longer on and off ramp? Or are they other considerations like having it start off taking up more of the right of way rather than leaving gaps on the edges?

I'm guessing drainage is more complex.