[miketoronto]

While we all agree transit is important, and the better way to build a city.

I think there is one thing we can not deny, and that is cost. Check out this article from The Star. Look how cheap it is to build highway lanes compared to transit. There is no way we could add 25KM of rail for $37 million


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$38M to add 2 lanes to Hwy. 407
Apr. 12, 2006. 08:12 AM
CANADIAN PRESS


Aecon Group Inc. has won a $37.5-million contract to widen Hwy. 407, with the aim of improving traffic flow.

The project, which will add two inside lanes along the 24.5-kilometre stretch from Hwy. 427 to Hwy. 404, will expand the central section of the highway and improve traffic flow during peak hours.

The east-west toll highway is owned by a consortium that includes engineering firm SNC-Lavalin Inc.

Aecon, one of the original partners in the development, design, construction and operation of Hwy. 407, said Wednesday it will reconstruct the highway median and perform the grading, drainage, hot mix paving and illumination work.

Work on the project is scheduled to be completed by September.

Aecon Group is Canada's largest publicly traded construction and infrastructure development company.

 

[andreapalladio]

I wouldn't dream of denying cose - even if I knew what it was.

Especially this week, with its emphasis on denying things thrice, etc.

 

[JoeyCuppa]

You're hilarious Mike.

You sound like a Conservative - knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

 

[miketoronto]

I am not saying we should be adding highway lanes. I just can't believe how much cheaper it is to build highways compared to transit.

Its going to cost one billion to extend the subway 6KM. While they are building 25 KM of new road, for 35 million. Its no wonder it is hard to get transit funding sometimes.

 

[Chuck100]

I'm guessing that a large part of the cost has to do with purchasing the steel for the rails. 1 km of rail actually has 4 km of steel, and I believe that the price of steel is rising. Plus vehicles are expensive to purchase. The track bed itself probably has a similar design as a highway lane, and is the same width.

 

[JoeyCuppa]

New streetcar lines cost 10% of what subways do, per kilometre. Plus, they carry a ton of people in the space that two cars (often carrying 1 person each) take up.

Break the cost down per passenger and you've got a different news story.

 

[tplannerII]

That cost is to add lanes to an existing highway, which was designed to accommodate such an expansion. It would be much more expensive if they were building the highway from scratch, or had to replace structures, etc.

 

[MrOttawa]

Mike,

Lets look at where some costs come from before making that conclusion :

Land Acquisition:

You need land to add or build more capacity. Most of Toronto's rail is in the city. Very expensive land costs. Suburban highways are buil on farm, undeveloped land.

Construction:

Paving over farms is cheap. Building bridged or tunnels separating the rail from cars is expensive.

Life-Cycle Maintenance:

Railroads are cheap to rebalast. Every 40 years replace the rails, pretty cheap. Roads and need to be cleaned every year, have snow removal, patches, re-paving every 10 years. All those contractors and highway maintenance workers are busy repairing the damages caused by salt and the pounding of the cars and trucks(no commuter).

Vehicle:

The Gov't has to purchase the trainsets. That adds costs. Vehicles driven on the roads are paid for by the users. That said trainsets last between 30-40 years before they need to be rebuilt. In that time they will carry millions of passengers billions of miles.

Volumetrick Comparison:

Yonge St. subway can carry 40,000 people an hour. 401 carries that in a day. Look at the size of realestate and costs to run both.

Mike, before making that conclusion look at the costs per passenger mile.

 

[cacruden]

It also depends on where you are building the highway -- 407 is out in the wilderness.

Try building a new highway along -- Eglinton -- how much would that cost in expropriations alone

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Yonge St. subway can carry 40,000 people an hour. 401 carries that in a day."

Doesn't it carry 400,000 in a day?

 

[afransen TO]

Pretty sure the 401 carries something on the order of half a million cars per day. Still, the point stands. Transporting half a million people via the Yonge subway is vastly cheaper than the same on the 401.

 

[drum118]

Find a point on the 401 at peak time and count the number of people in each car that goes by this point for one lane of traffic for one hour. Your count will not come close to a subway count of 48,000 to 60,000 riders per hour it can carry at one point.

What needs to be done, there should be 2 lanes each directions for trucks only as it would cut down on their travelling time as well operating cost.

Highways are not as cheap as transit in a city, but on long distance over 50km it is.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

What needs to be done, there should be 2 lanes each directions for trucks only as it would cut down on their travelling time as well operating cost.

I'm pretty sure they have those in the US, if not truck-only highways.

 

[drum118]

I'm pretty sure they have those in the US, if not truck-only highways.
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No

 

[unimaginative2]

There's a proposal for them in Texas.