[Kosy123]

I'm a bit too tired to write out an essay on this, but Elaine Hyshka has been a very informative person for me to follow regarding this whole issue. I can safely say I don't know as much as I should regarding the issue, and reading her opinions on the matter has been quite informative.

https://twitter.com/ehyshka?lang=en

There have also been other articles with this issue, concerning issues about relapse, lower tolerance under relapse (with higher overdose rates as a result) and the fact that voluntary treatment wait times are already high enough.

Opinion: Compassionate Intervention Act will do more harm than good

Op-ed on forced treatment for addicts.

edmontonjournal.com

Group opposes involuntary treatment as Alberta government mulls legislation

An organization representing families who have lost loved ones to drug poisoning is calling on the Alberta government to not implement involuntary addiction treatment legislation.

edmontonjournal.com

My main issue with this is the fact that switching over to "forced treatment" and decrying the failure of a harm reduction and housing first policy is a bit weird for me considering we haven't fully tried to go for the second policy. I cannot in good conscience decry the failure of a policy as a reason to switch gears when we, as a province, have haphazardly implemented the latter with a government that hasn't had its heart in it from the beginning, as evidenced by this article below.

Alberta safe supply report criticized for bias, focus on prescription opioids

An Alberta legislative committee exploring the issue of safe drug supply has released a report that critics say is biased and focuses too much on the overprescripti…

edmontonjournal.com

^What I can say on a very safe basis is that there were rumours that the original non-partisan committee research report had harm reduction and safe supply as the most effective recommendation, before political machinations and pressure changed the report in finality.

In conclusion, I can't support this policy though I fully understand why some would want it regarding how our current approach has been lackluster at best. But that approach has been a mish-mash of multiple policies and directions.

 

[TAS]

Some good points have been made all around.

The UCP are moving ahead with forced treatment so those advocating for that approach will be happy in the sense of feeling like crime and disorder is being integrated with treatment.

With only so much money to go around, it does mean not as much will be funded as advocates of harm reduction say is needed, however.

If anyone has any data on forced treatment reducing crime, and by how much, I would like to read it. In reading that many people on forced treatment relapse, as well as those in harm reduction, I'm not sure longer term how it reduces crime if the addiction resurfaces and homelessness becomes an issue again - especially if many of the underlying causes of why that person fell into that state in the first place are not addressed as Ken talked about.

Ultimately about 25% of people who are homeless report it was due to addiction and drug use. The other 75% is for reasons like not being able to pay rent, abusive situations, being unemployable and previous incarceration. Youth kicked out of the house figures in there, too. Sadly, a percentage of people who are homeless for non drug reasons, eventually fall into an addiction as a result - which again speaks to the importance of housing first.

Certainly there are stats that forced treatment results in increased deaths versus harm reduction. And understandably, many people are very nervous and fearful about forced treatment given our history as a society with things such as gay conversion therapy, where youth were often kept against their will, as well as with residential schools - all things that were legal and justified for the good of society at the time.

 

[thommyjo]

I'm a bit too tired to write out an essay on this, but Elaine Hyshka has been a very informative person for me to follow regarding this whole issue. I can safely say I don't know as much as I should regarding the issue, and reading her opinions on the matter has been quite informative.

https://twitter.com/ehyshka?lang=en

There have also been other articles with this issue, concerning issues about relapse, lower tolerance under relapse (with higher overdose rates as a result) and the fact that voluntary treatment wait times are already high enough.

Opinion: Compassionate Intervention Act will do more harm than good

Op-ed on forced treatment for addicts.

edmontonjournal.com

Group opposes involuntary treatment as Alberta government mulls legislation

An organization representing families who have lost loved ones to drug poisoning is calling on the Alberta government to not implement involuntary addiction treatment legislation.

edmontonjournal.com

My main issue with this is the fact that switching over to "forced treatment" and decrying the failure of a harm reduction and housing first policy is a bit weird for me considering we haven't fully tried to go for the second policy. I cannot in good conscience decry the failure of a policy as a reason to switch gears when we, as a province, have haphazardly implemented the latter with a government that hasn't had its heart in it from the beginning, as evidenced by this article below.

Alberta safe supply report criticized for bias, focus on prescription opioids

An Alberta legislative committee exploring the issue of safe drug supply has released a report that critics say is biased and focuses too much on the overprescripti…

edmontonjournal.com

^What I can say on a very safe basis is that there were rumours that the original non-partisan committee research report had harm reduction and safe supply as the most effective recommendation, before political machinations and pressure changed the report in finality.

In conclusion, I can't support this policy though I fully understand why some would want it regarding how our current approach has been lackluster at best. But that approach has been a mish-mash of multiple policies and directions.

I agree that Edmonton and alberta haven’t seen a full roll out. But how do you make sense of Vancouver, Portland, san fransico, LA in light of their efforts? Also, interesting to contrast to a place like NYC that has taken a harsher enforcement approach and seen some promising metrics. I’m not fully flip flopped, but I’m much more skeptical of the silver bullet catch phrases and “look at Finland” examples that have been toted for a decade.

 

[Kosy123]

I agree that Edmonton and alberta haven’t seen a full roll out. But how do you make sense of Vancouver, Portland, san fransico, LA in light of their efforts? Also, interesting to contrast to a place like NYC that has taken a harsher enforcement approach and seen some promising metrics. I’m not fully flip flopped, but I’m much more skeptical of the silver bullet catch phrases and “look at Finland” examples that have been toted for a decade.

I'd argue that the Housing First initiative in Vancouver hasn't also fully done a proper rollout considering some of the issues and the eligibility factors and consistent investment in it by multiple levels of government. From some offhand conversations when I was there, a key criticism of Vancouver's four pillars policy (similar to Portugal and some European countries) is that they haven't been truly implemented on a proper scale.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...va-review-four-pillar-drug-strategy-1.5328780

This study from 2017 https://hsa-bc.ca/_Library/Resource...st-Approach-in-the-Metro-Vancouver-Region.pdf (which is woefully outdated) lists these as issues for Vancouver's housing first policy
- program's eligibility criteria
- limited availability of affordable/bridge/transition housing (this was something that was brought up heavily when I was there wherein that decriminalization was done but this second aspect was woefully underfunded)
- low vacancy rates

The US examples are less fitting for comparison to Alberta (in my opinion). especially as the factors for homelessness in the US are a bit different with less social supports and the fact that a significant factor of this could be their high housing costs as well, but again I haven't done as much research on this front. The one area I know could be compared for us has been Houston's approach to it

Houston’s housing-first model is reducing homelessness. Here’s how it works and the obstacles it faces.

Over 90% housed under Houston’s housing-first program have remained housed for over two years, city officials say. But further progress is challenged by a housing shortage and other factors.

www.smartcitiesdive.com

I just don't think (personally) that looking at examples of Housing First policies in NA that were implemented in a really haphazard manner or in some cases just lip service is a completely justified cause for a massive shift, it's more reactive than a proactive policy decision, and one that's doomed to us playing catch up with this issue rather than tackling some key elements of it.

 

[archited]

To that end...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/05/21/adu-granny-flat-california-housing-crisis/

I have been commissioned to design a few of these and , generally speaking, people are very excited and the "homeless" problem has begun to subside.

 

[Garneau2Go]

There's an article that came out a few years ago that I think about a lot. It's been paywalled since then but the crux of it is this:

Meth used to be essentially a party drug and was less harmful back when it was made with Sudafed (It was still bad, please don't smoke meth). Cartels and chemists figured out how to get around the need for Sudafed and created a cheaper synthetic version that was easier to produce and distribute.

The problem with this synthetic version is that it wreaks significantly more havoc on your brain chemistry than before (which is saying something because it's meth). Not only is it addictive, it makes people more unpredictable and violent.

So I think this helps explain a lot of disorder downtown. From what I gather it's due to a mix of cheap methamphetamine floating around and what people are taking is frying brains. It's very difficult to treat the addiction without support and safe supply.

‘I Don’t Know That I Would Even Call It Meth Anymore’

Different chemically than it was a decade ago, the drug is creating a wave of severe mental illness and worsening America’s homelessness problem.

www.theatlantic.com

‎Today, Explained: The new meth on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Today, Explained, Ep The new meth - 10 Dec 2021

podcasts.apple.com

 

[SumAqua]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/province-seeks-providers-to-run-3-new-emergency-shelters-in-edmonton-1.6911485

Looks like there's some more emergency shelters on the way.

 

[Kosy123]

If anyone is interested, Homeward Trust has an excellent database so far when it comes to statistics when it comes to Homelessness in the Edmonton area (along with other relevant statistics such as shelter usage, shelter occupancy rate and all that data). Seems to be month by month reporting as well.

| Homeward Trust Edmonton: Ending Homelessness

Homeward Trust provides support for those experiencing homelessness in Edmonton. Ending homelessness is achievable and within our reach.

homewardtrust.ca

 

[Kosy123]

Edmonton expects enough shelter spaces for homeless this winter

Nearly all of the 1,727 winter shelter beds funded in Edmonton should be open by Nov. 1, city staff told councillors during a meeting Wednesday at city hall.

edmontonjournal.com

Hopefully there's a conversation to make these shelter spaces permanent year round. 1700 shelter spaces puts us on par with Calgary (finally)

EDIT: Some pretty good snippets here actually

Mayor Amarjeet Sohi is glad to see progress from the provincial government and recognition about Edmonton’s comparative lack of spaces to Calgary. Sohi hopes the additional spaces will mean fewer people need to shelter in public spaces.

“I hope that increased shelter capacity will allow us to move people from transit centres, LRT stations, into shelters, and that they don’t have to seek refuge in public places where they’re forced to do so now,” he told reporters Wednesday.

Edmontonians can seek respite from the cold in city facilities like libraries and recreation centres when the city activates its emergency winter weather response. But staying in transit centres or LRT stations “is not appropriate for warming or sheltering” even during cold snaps, city spokesperson Karen Zypchyn confirmed with Postmedia.

Instead, there will be two new bus routes this winter shuttling people from transit centres to shelters every night, not only when a cold weather emergency is declared.

 

[Kosy123]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/risk-of-homelessness-calgary-study-1.7009166

I'm curious what the numbers for Edmonton are, because 115,000 people being part of "at risk" households for homelessness in Calgary is insane. As much as Calgary's increased prices have led to increased interest for real estate investment, there's a genuine human cost to that sort of price fluctuation. I wouldn't be surprised if visible homelessness becomes more common down there. All of this really needs some form of action that I'm not really seeing as much of from other orders of government.

 

[Kosy123]

Homeward Trust also has an update on its strategy since 2017 today, and the findings are super interesting. I'd argue that everyone should take a read on it if they're interested in this issue.

https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=201438

Highlights for me:
- It took Homeward Trust $21,600 per person cost for housing someone under their Housing First program.
- From 2017-2023, more than 8,000 people have been housed
- The inflow is too much for current capacity. There are more people becoming unhoused than the system can process. A new chunk of inflow are people coming from health/corrections and child intervention systems, all of whom necessitate greater care.

- Shelters are at full occupancy, and homelessness is at historic highs.
- The amount of correctional facilities around Edmonton contribute to the issue as well.

I had an anecdotal conversation with someone much more familiar with this issue, and essentially what the issue in Edmonton is that our HF program works "too well*, this results in people from other areas of the province coming here for services. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it shows that there SHOULD be more provincial money/effort going into this issue. Edmonton's problem regarding the unhoused is that we've steadily picked up the slack from other jurisdictions.

Essentially, we're doing a significant amount of work, with the funding capacity of a municipality. It's eye opening.

 

[Airboy]

I had an anecdotal conversation with someone much more familiar with this issue, and essentially what the issue in Edmonton is that our HF program works "too well*, this results in people from other areas of the province coming here for services. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it shows that there SHOULD be more provincial money/effort going into this issue. Edmonton's problem regarding the unhoused is that we've steadily picked up the slack from other jurisdictions.

Essentially, we're doing a significant amount of work, with the funding capacity of a municipality. It's eye opening.

That's partly true we do get more from other areas. But it is the cutting or total lake of services in the other jurisdictions that has contributed to the influx. I don't expect to see much in the speech from the throne today other than some opioid recovery costs.

 

[Kosy123]

That's partly true we do get more from other areas. But it is the cutting or total lake of services in the other jurisdictions that has contributed to the influx. I don't expect to see much in the speech from the throne today other than some opioid recovery costs.

I'm not expecting anything different in their approach as well. The only thing I can think of is more incremental spending like they did with the shelter capacity for winter, but nothing more than that.

 

[SarcasticMarmot]

I had an anecdotal conversation with someone much more familiar with this issue, and essentially what the issue in Edmonton is that our HF program works "too well*, this results in people from other areas of the province coming here for services. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it shows that there SHOULD be more provincial money/effort going into this issue. Edmonton's problem regarding the unhoused is that we've steadily picked up the slack from other jurisdictions.

Essentially, we're doing a significant amount of work, with the funding capacity of a municipality. It's eye opening.

This is kinda true. I've worked with this community in a few different cities. Every city thinks other cities are shipping their problems to them. The data as I understand it shows the big city to big city numbers as basically being a wash. Some people go from Edmonton to Vancouver but a similar number go from Vancouver to Edmonton.

What Edmonton does have is unusually large collection of people from outside the city because we are the nearest major centre to a huge portion of Canada. But they aren't coming from other major municipalities, but instead from rural communities in Alberta, Northern/Central Saskatchewan, Northern BC, and the NWT. For example, anecdotally, the number of people I have seen from Rocky Mountain House, Grande Prairie, and North Battleford is insane. These communities have limited to no services and little opportunity to build yourself back up once the community has decided you failed. So people end up coming to Edmonton looking for new opportunities and supports.

This is why Homelessness/Social Services is supposed to a Provincial jurisdiction. But the province knows that the cities will get blamed so they have no incentive to actually fill their mandate.

 

[erudyk_29]

I was talking with someone from Alaska who said that essentially Anchorage's homeless policy is to buy them a plane ticket and send them to Seattle, essentially offloading a huge amount of homelessness onto another city each year. Is it people making their way to Edmonton themselves or do communities like Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Fort Mac etc just send their homeless to Edmonton?