[The Mississauga Muse]

rarely do you see attractive homeless.

maybe all they need is a makeover?

As I mentioned before. I've had to sleep out just like the homeless and with the homeless. Fortunately I was on turtle watch. Some of these homeless didn't even have blankets. Those who did, you couldn't tell what colour the blankets were. Clothes even look like the colour of the beach or the ground.

My husband and I were the only two who were together. One of us would keep watch while the other slept. When we got too tired for either of us to stay awake, we went to the car and slept in there. You dare not both close your eyes.

That is some people's lives. And I can see how one day you just give up and other beach people become your society and your social circle. The mainstream look down on you and don't look at you at all.

Dunno. What I DO know is next summer, that female turtle will nest again and at age 58 and 60, we'll be out there sleeping on the beach with the homeless.

BTW, the homeless here also include entire familiies... even little kids. The fortunate live out of their cars and trucks.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I suspect the homeless are much like parapalegics. We don't actually like to see them around. Makes us uncormfortable...

Careful, while I understand you're speaking on behalf of greater society, not yourself, you might offend a few sensitivities with comments like that. Earlier in this thread I suggested similiar societal thinkings as was flamed for it.

Honestly I think we're just tired of the untidy riff-raff populating our city streets and use PC phrases like aggressive panhandling when what we want is someone to take control of the situation and move these fellows on.

When I was a young lad in London, UK I can recall the constabulary waking up the tramps who were sleeping on park benches and telling them to move on. Where they went to wasn't his (or our) concern, but move on he did. Harsh and unfair treatment indeed, but we've always treated one another by how we look. IMHO, the rest of us regular middle and mid-upper class working city folk do not or can not live in harmony with the riff-raff, especially the street populations of addicts, mentally ill, beggars and homeless. We want them off the streets, and like the Bobby of my childhood, we don't care where they go, provided they're gone.

I still think that society in general doesn't care what happens to the beggars or homeless, and just wants them gone.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I suspect the homeless are much like parapalegics. We don't actually like to see them around. Makes us uncormfortable...

sad but true sometimes.

P.S, my makeover comment was a seinfeld quote, from memory.

 

[Hydrogen]

When I was a young lad in London, UK I can recall the constabulary waking up the tramps who were sleeping on park benches and telling them to move on. Where they went to wasn't his (or our) concern, but move on he did. Harsh and unfair treatment indeed, but we've always treated one another by how we look. IMHO, the rest of us regular middle and mid-upper class working city folk do not or can not live in harmony with the riff-raff, especially the street populations of addicts, mentally ill, beggars and homeless. We want them off the streets, and like the Bobby of my childhood, we don't care where they go, provided they're gone.

Beez, the trouble with your quote is that it makes no distinctions. The riff-raff, beggars and homeless you speak of are quite a diverse group.

Years ago I had a family member who was afflicted with mental illness. He went from being a working person with a small house to being a man plaugued by an unsettled mind and living life in a grubby apartment. On a number of occasions, he was homeless or in hospital. He died of a massive heart attack while waiting in line for his medication.

This man, this person who would appear to be riff-raff to some, a man who was at different times homeless, was not a regular middle or upper middle class person. He did not construct his destiny; it fell on him like a ton of bricks. Many people did not like being around him because of his mental illness, so he was shunned to a large degree. There was no way he could work even though he was quite skilled with a trade.

I don't mean to lecture. I guess my point here is that the people we see all too often have a story behind them - and sometimes it is certainly not pretty. We forget that many people around us, those with homes and jobs, are really only a few steps away from being on the street. All it takes is the right confluence of circumstances.

There's no doubt that panhandler frauds are annoying, and that agrressive panhandling is wrong. But it is a symptom of a number of problems. Not everyone we ancounter on the street arrives there by the same circumstances.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

hydrogen, i extend an arm around the shoulder to thee.

 

[salvius]

Beez, the trouble with your quote is that it makes no distinctions. The riff-raff, beggars and homeless you speak of are quite a diverse group.

Years ago I had a family member who was afflicted with mental illness. He went from being a working person with a small house to being a man plaugued by an unsettled mind and living life in a grubby apartment. On a number of occasions, he was homeless or in hospital. He died of a massive heart attack while waiting in line for his medication.

This man, this person who would appear to be riff-raff to some, a man who was at different times homeless, was not a regular middle or upper middle class person. He did not construct his destiny; it fell on him like a ton of bricks. Many people did not like being around him because of his mental illness, so he was shunned to a large degree. There was no way he could work even though he was quite skilled with a trade.

I don't mean to lecture. I guess my point here is that the people we see all too often have a story behind them - and sometimes it is certainly not pretty. We forget that many people around us, those with homes and jobs, are really only a few steps away from being on the street. All it takes is the right confluence of circumstances.

There's no doubt that panhandler frauds are annoying, and that agrressive panhandling is wrong. But it is a symptom of a number of problems. Not everyone we ancounter on the street arrives there by the same circumstances.

I had a similar post, but UT chose to eat it yesterday.

Classic mental illness isn't always the only problem either. I worked at a support house for a few months. It was not pretty.

While we did get some youth that needed a hot one across the face (daddy doesn't let me stay late on Fridays so I ran away), and also addicts who undoubtedly panhandled to satisfy the monkey on their back, many were escaping violence and/or sexual abuse. This is not a mental illness in the 'standard' sense of that word, but it does leave some deep emotional scars. You have kids, basically, with no support, no money, escaping very broken homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. It's hard to get back up from such circumstances. Some of those kids were indeed panhandlers, but calling them 'leeches' is revolting to me.

Some people choose to live on the streets, and I agree with the fact that large number of panhandlers are basically frauds. But before we go on how horrible all those imbeciles on the street are, maybe we should try to lobby for a properly funded support network for those that are down and out (the funding is low; my group was a non-profit like most others, and finding money was always a challange).

Then, when we really have the situation properly addressed, then we can talk about banning panhandling or start to make fun of people that give money to the charlatans on the street.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Very well said Hydrogen, well said indeed.

 

[Tewder]

I feel for the homeless and mentally ill, and I can only imagine the terrible blows in life that would lead one to abandon kith and kin to live the hard life of the street. That said, I still do not feel they should be allowed to live in the street and panhandle. This only leaves us with two major problems, rather than one. If people feel moved to want to help make a difference they should contribute to the numerous charitable organizations that are there to help.

 

[Hydrogen]

hydrogen, i extend an arm around the shoulder to thee.

Thank you.


Like I mentioned, I don't want to lecture on this issue. I have no special insight. I am just requesting that we all take a deep breath and try to keep and open mind on what we see around us (and this includes me). I know that's not a solution, but we never really know the story we face when we encounter someone on the street.

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Originally Posted by The Mississauga Muse
I suspect the homeless are much like parapalegics. We don't actually like to see them around. Makes us uncormfortable...

You wrote:

Careful, while I understand you're speaking on behalf of greater society, not yourself, you might offend a few sensitivities with comments like that. Earlier in this thread I suggested similiar societal thinkings as was flamed for it.

Thanks, Admiral. Electronic communication being what it is you can sometimes type things you didn't really mean to say, forgetting to type "not" or an entire carelessly-left out sentence.

But no, I stand by what I wrote, my only regret being not to have used more examples. And again in honesty the "we" was me too. I'm uncomfortable with the homeless, parapalegics, amputees, the terminally-ill, those with severe mental and emotional problems. And it's for a reason I stated in another post --that reminder we get that there but for the Grace of God...

You're forced to think and you conclude that there's zero reason why you should be ok and others not.

Sometimes all it takes is a second's bad judgement --or bad luck. LUCK. And I find that intolerable.

And here's another reason. Far as we know, there's only one life per living thing. You get dealt your hand. Me, I get to be 58 soon and have led an enviable life. Some other human being --a way better person than me?-- gets dealt shit on the stick.

I sat in on the Mississauga Accessibility Advisory Committee for a couple of meetings. Cripes, the Mississauga Bus drivers don't even want to call out stops for the visually-impaired. Anyone who can't make it across the street by the time the lights change is *sigh* regarded as high maintenance because of the costs involved of installing special lights.

I better stop because I feel myself getting crabby.

You wrote:

IMHO, the rest of us regular middle and mid-upper class working city folk do not or can not live in harmony with the riff-raff, especially the street populations of addicts, mentally ill, beggars and homeless. We want them off the streets, and like the Bobby of my childhood, we don't care where they go, provided they're gone.

I still think that society in general doesn't care what happens to the beggars or homeless, and just wants them gone.

Except at Christmas time...

An aside. Just speaking from my own recent experience with municipal government...

I no longer feel a part of Mississauga even though I lived here since 1953. It's about philosophy and when you experience how the riff-raff are treated.

your comment, "the rest of us regular middle and mid-upper class working city folk do not or can not live in harmony with the riff-raff," is true. Definitely.

But when you see and have lived it from the riff-raff side (and believe me my own experience was benign and temporary), you realize that the riff-raff do not and cannot live in harmony with the middle plus classes either".

Living on the edge of us makes THEM uncomfortable.

I'm convinced they're just as happy if we all went away. Something else I learned. Now this comes from just the briefest and most-superficial of observations but I got hints that the police treat the homeless better than the Government whose mandate it is to represent and serve all citizens.

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Beez, the trouble with your quote is that it makes no distinctions. The riff-raff, beggars and homeless you speak of are quite a diverse group.

This man, this person who would appear to be riff-raff to some, a man who was at different times homeless, was not a regular middle or upper middle class person. He did not construct his destiny; it fell on him like a ton of bricks.

We've known a guy here on Maui for years --older guy. Last summer he fell and bashed his nose. By the time we were to leave we were told he was diagnosed with a brain tumour. Over the winter we found out his wife died of diabetic shock.

"Ton of bricks."

We returned this summer and he was gone from his job as a resident manager and were told he was still in hospital "diminished". We found out that well over 20% of the people in that hospital, if forced out, would be homeless.

Life savings quickly taken by illness. Plenty of money for their War Machine though.

You said it best Hydrogen. Over all of us there's this net suspended over our heads and it contains a ton of bricks. When it's come crashing down on our fellows we need to look up and reflect at the one suspended above our own heads.

Thanks, Hydrogen.

 

[poppajojo]

Something else I learned. Now this comes from just the briefest and most-superficial of observations but I got hints that the police treat the homeless better than the Government whose mandate it is to represent and serve all citizens.

Not sure about that one. According to a recent survey:

Fifty-six per cent of those who reported being beaten said they were assaulted by strangers, but 38 per cent said they'd been battered by "acquaintances," 27 per cent by another shelter resident, 21 per cent by a spouse or partner, 6 per cent by shelter staff and 35 per cent by cops, which police would vehemently dispute.

http://www.thestar.com/article/248616

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And a new one, from the Globe:

Mental disorders lead to homeless hospital visits

ANNE-MARIE TOBIN

Canadian Press

August 30, 2007 at 2:25 PM EDT

TORONTO — More than half of hospital stays by homeless Canadians are a direct result of mental disorders, suggests a study of mental health and homelessness released Thursday.

The report by the Canadian Institute for Health Information describes homelessness as a "harsh reality" for more than 10,000 people staying in shelters on any given night in Canada, and provides an overview of research and interventions for people living on the street and in shelters.

In particular, it pulls together hospital data on admissions in 2005-06, and the reasons behind them.

"This is the first time we're tracking this kind of information," Elizabeth Votta, an author of the report, said from Ottawa.

"It's data that's collected from Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto — primarily Toronto because that's the way the database is set up — but what it's telling us is that 52 per cent of homeless persons that are being hospitalized are being done so for mental disorders ... and that's much higher than the general population, which is coming in at five per cent."

A portion of the report looked at selected emergency rooms, mostly in Ontario, and found that 35 per cent of visits by the homeless were related to a mental disorder. Substance abuse accounted for 54 per cent of those mental disorders, followed by psychotic disorders, such as schizophrenia, at 20 per cent.

The report notes Aboriginal Peoples are over-represented among the homeless in cities across Canada, and men comprise three-quarters of the hospital visits by the homeless.

"One of the things from a stigma point of view that we want to get across is that not everyone who's mentally ill is going to become homeless, and not everyone who's homeless has a mental illness," said Ms. Votta.

"But we do have to recognize that there is that higher prevalence of mental illness and compromised mental health among the homeless."

Bill Wilkerson, co-founder of the Global Business and Economic Roundtable on Addiction and Mental Health, expressed impatience with the report, which noted homelessness is linked to stress, low levels of self-esteem and suicide.

"We have known for 25 years what this report is telling us yet again," he said. "So it's time for action, not time for more study."

Mr. Wilkerson was involved in a task force that scrambled to find housing for mentally ill people who were deinstitutionalized in Ontario in the early 1980s.

"The only difference, I think, is the problem then was new. Now it's old," he said from his home in Port Hope, Ont.

"I think we have studied this problem into the ground ... I think the city of Toronto, the city of Vancouver should both say, as a matter of public policy, living on the street is unacceptable," he added.

"We need a combination of tough love and community support, housing and drug treatment support measures, and a whole ton of compassion to resolve this issue."

Beric German of Street Health, an organization in Toronto that provides health care at shelters and on the streets, said one in five people in Canada will have a mental-health issue in their lifetime.

He noted that many people who are homeless develop mental-health problems after landing on the streets.

"In reality, the extreme stress of being homeless can cause mental-health issues, certainly can lead to depression," he said.

"You don't get enough food. You don't get enough sleep. You're in a worse situation in regard to being possibly assaulted. If you're very, very stressed out, it's very common in this country to reach for a bottle or to reach for some drug to kill the pain. And people do that. And sometimes they kill the pain too much and they end up in an emergency ward."

Homelessness can often be traced to the lack of a job and affordable housing — and German said this is something that any Canadian could face.

"There's a tremendous prejudice out there around mental health. ... They see people sometimes who are in terrible shape, and they think that somehow that person can be dismissed."

He called for a comprehensive health-care system that would provide housing, support, income and nutritious food for those who need it.

Ms. Votta said it's hoped the CIHI report will increase awareness and discussion about homelessness and foster a broader look at interventions, such as providing housing.

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

Would it not be mroe humane and morally right to re-open the asylums where we used to institutionalize the severely metally ill? It doesn't have to be the nasty Beblam.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Adm. Beez:

Humane and morally right? Perhaps, perhaps not - whether someone needs institutionalization is dependent on the severity of their illness, as well as whether their illness can be managed in a community setting. Beyond that, institutionalization is probably the MOST expensive option from a system perspective - if one doesn't need it, one shouldn't be there, period.

AoD