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Cooool

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It's hard for me to wrap my head around how liberal Toronto is in relation to other cities.

Some cities like San Francisco and Seattle are VERY liberal and we hear all the stories in Fox News about it all the time.

And I was wondering how liberal is Toronto compared to other cities?

More liberal than Montreal? More liberal than San Francisco? More liberal than New York City?
 
More than New York City, definitely. More than San Francisco, yes. More than Montreal, not quite. Toronto is comfortably more liberal than any major American city. Remember that SF is only the size of the old City of Toronto. This is not to say that there aren't extremely liberal people in most American major cities.
 
What do you mean by "liberal", Cooool?

In some respects, Toronto is very liberal, such as affording rights to minority groups (eg: same sex marriage). In other areas, Toronto is really very un-liberal: I live in a red state, for example, and the drinking laws are considerably more progressive and liberal than anything you would find in Ontario.
 
What do you mean by "liberal", Cooool?

In some respects, Toronto is very liberal, such as affording rights to minority groups (eg: same sex marriage). In other areas, Toronto is really very un-liberal: I live in a red state, for example, and the drinking laws are considerably more progressive and liberal than anything you would find in Ontario.

Well, except for the whole no-drinking-until-you're-21 thing, which may trump everything as far as liberal attitudes toward alcohol go.
 
As others mentioned, the definition of Liberal is very pertinent to this discussion and varies widely.

For the sake of speaking to this point I will offer a definition, note that this is not a 'partisan' liberal definition, but rather a more ideological one.

I will also offer a rough comparative of other view points. I don't mean this as condemnatory or laudatory of any view point, nor definitive, just a way that you can understand the context of my own view.

Conservative: (social) A believer is so-called traditional values, a person relatively closed to the idea of change, who tolerates change only in the smallest of increments, over the longest period of time. Typically, in the west, traditional values might be associated with a more Christian and rural, and Caucasian view point.

Conservative: (fiscal) A believer in small government, fewer services provided at lesser rate, generally offset by fewer regulations and lower taxes. Deficits are typically frowned upon; though exceptions may be granted for law&order activities.

Liberal: (social) Somewhat more open-minded; generally inclined to accept greater rates of societal change, over a faster pace, typified by higher rates of class mobility. More often open to social accommodation and more tolerant of moderately aberrant social views.

Liberal: (fiscal) Generally inclined to centrist or pragmatic fiscal policy with an intermediate size of government. This view is often punctuated by a certain level of pragmatism varying from time to time as societal views shift, but invariably means a slightly larger gov't and array of services than a fiscal conservative would sponsor, but something less than what a socialist might.

Socialist: (social) Very similar to a liberal, in contemporary times, seen to be more a friend to 'minorities' or 'oppressed groups' than Liberals, but this is not completely consistent. Generally groups that are statistically significant, but under-represented economically are well served by this group; but again this is not always the case.

Socialist: (fiscal) Somewhat to the 'left' or larger spending side of 'Liberals'. Generally not opposed to some free-market activity but offer greater suspicion of it and greater support for redistributive economic policies. While not seen as enthusiastic supporters of deficits, they are typically more tolerant of those, as with higher rates of taxation.

**********

Now, to Toronto:

If one were to view Liberal as 'middle-ground tolerance'.....

Then Toronto is among the most liberal cities in the world.

When compared with with many cities in Europe or Asia, let alone the United States, there is both greater acceptance of new-comers, of social mobility and of people of varying backgrounds, racial, linguistic, religious, and of course of sexual orientation.

If one were to view the fiscal side of the equation.....Toronto is probably classically liberal, on average, by North American Standards, assuming one though of Quebec as the closest one might get to overall socialism within the N.A. context.

Toronto typically delivers about 45% of its votes to 'nominal' liberals, about 25% to nominal socialists, and about 30% to nominal conservatives, in Federal and provincial races.

The latter 2 numbers sometimes reverse, but they are fairly consistent.

However, as the far-left vote is concentrated in a few city-centre ridings for the most part; this is reflected in typical breakdown of 18/19 Liberal (party) and 3-4) NDP (socialist) seats in most higher-order gov't elections.

Conservative victories are are rare.

Among 'local' polticians, the break down is something very similar, except with a slightly higher vote for both the 'LEFT' and the 'RIGHT'; but over all a left-centre composition.

Now.....

In terms of values:

This gets complicated because laws, or programs and electoral views do not always mesh, in any jurisdiction.

But in general polls tend to show Torontonians in favour of more 'liberal' or tolerate laws on issues ranging from Marijuana to Prostitution.

But this is far from universal and varies widely from one area to the next.

That said, laws on these subjects are made by higher-order gov'ts with other jurisdictions to consider.

In term of programs set at the purely local level:

Toronto's library service offers total hours that are second to none on continent and growing.

Recreation Centres aren't quite as good, though there numbers are greater that what one finds in NYC.

I noted a few years ago that New York had fewer outdoor pools, fewer wading pools, fewer libraries etc. than Toronto, not in rate, but in absolute numbers.

That is not a slight on New York, and has something to do with the age of the City......

But in so far as greater public services make a jurisdiction more liberal, Toronto is pretty close to the top in North America.

However, if one looks at 'social' or 'educational' issues from post-secondary tuitions to pharmacare, then Toronto is not that far left, though, still much more so than an U.S. City.

But its unfair, irrespective of view, to judge a City by programs over which it has little control.

In the end, I would conclude that Toronto and Montreal are fairly similarly among the most Liberal cities in North America.

With Montreal being somewhat more open-minded on booze, sex and social programs; but Toronto better at accepting and integrating minorities.

No U.S. city is truly comparable, though San Fran probably comes closest.
 
Certain ways it is conservative.



People expect great service for paying so many taxes to the city.

Plus, they are very tough on crime and think people should crack down more on crime.


So pretty much a ton of those suburban people in the GTA that vote Liberal are really centrist.
 
Conservative: (social) A believer is so-called traditional values, a person relatively closed to the idea of change, who tolerates change only in the smallest of increments, over the longest period of time. Typically, in the west, traditional values might be associated with a more Christian and rural, and Caucasian view point.

'Caucasian'? Are you serious?? Looking at the 'world' as a whole I think you would find that liberalism and tolerance are are more common in western developed and 'traditionally' caucasion countries.
 
'Caucasian'? Are you serious?? Looking at the 'world' as a whole I think you would find that liberalism and tolerance are are more common in western developed and 'traditionally' caucasion countries.

Faulty syllogism alert.

The fact (for the sake of argument) that liberalism and tolerance are more common in western developed countries does not mean that western Canadian social conservatives do not self-identify as rural, Christian caucasians to the exclusion of others.
 
Given the number of socialists we keep electing, surely many Torontonians are too left-wing to be Liberal!
 
Maybe not Liberal but certainly liberal. I don't think you can call anyone Toronto has elected in recent years a socialist. Maybe in their minds in some cases, but certainly not in their policies.
 
Well, except for the whole no-drinking-until-you're-21 thing, which may trump everything as far as liberal attitudes toward alcohol go.

The drinking age in Ontario is 19. Unless, of course, I'm missing something here.
 
The drinking age in Ontario is 19. Unless, of course, I'm missing something here.

Hipster Duck was saying his U.S. State has more liberal attitudes towards alcohol than Ontario does. I was saying that their ridiculous drinking age of 21 probably negates that.
 

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