1875
Senior Member
24th ave 5st sw
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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
MichaelS
Senior Member
An interesting one proposed along 33rd Ave in Marda Loop, at 1615 and 1619 33rd Ave SW, called Loop 33:
FAAS again is the architect, and a similar concept to the Tuxedo one above on this page, but a larger scale. 22 units, 11 parking stalls:
There seems to be a LOT of these cropping up everywhere in the inner-city, where basement suites (now dubbed micro-dwelling units) are included, but no parking for them provided.
FAAS again is the architect, and a similar concept to the Tuxedo one above on this page, but a larger scale. 22 units, 11 parking stalls:
There seems to be a LOT of these cropping up everywhere in the inner-city, where basement suites (now dubbed micro-dwelling units) are included, but no parking for them provided.
MissingMiddle
Active Member
I say bring it on.
The barrier for entry for a SFH is really high, and these projects bridge the gap between an urban apartment and suburban SFH very effectively. The bonus is that they substantially increase density.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Excellent!
We are so over-parked in this city, anything we can to do to create some un-bundled housing/parking options is a great thing for lifestyle and affordability choices.
Urban Outdoorsman
Active Member
I love these kind of projects. Great way to add substantial density and housing diversity to neighborhoods while keeping the overall feel of the community. This is textbook missing middle housing and I say keep it up!
Cowtown
Senior Member
Build a million of those!
adamyyc
Active Member
I agree, but I think the City needs to have more permitted parking if we’re going to continue down the path of <1 stall per unit. Permits don’t need to be outrageously expensive, but if you don’t have enough parking for all your vehicles at your residence, you should have to pay something to leave your car on the street every night. Too many people in inner city neighbourhoods park vehicles (often a second vehicle) that never move (as evidenced by the feet of snow on top). It’d also be a good revenue source for the City which could be allocated to public transit or cycling infrastructure.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Totally agree, parking should be user pay everywhere. Publicly subsidizing street parking as it currently is setup encourages hoarding of resources, in the form of long-term parking out front of buildings for cars that never move. One person gets free storage forever of their vehicle at the expense of everyone else including other residents, but also visitors.
The solution is to charge for using street space, even modestly. In practice this would probably be simplest to do it like pretty much every other big city has for decades - a modest annual or monthly registration fee for any car that will be parked on the street anywhere in the city. That could be organized into zones, so you are registered to park only in areas near your house overnight but can park outside your zone for an additional overnight fee.
More broadly, the overarching goal should be to shift our city to require the car owner to pay for their car's storage requirements only, rather than today's system that's entirely distorted and publicly subsidized.
- We force developers to provide parking (that is passed onto owners whether they have a car or not). Even with generous relaxations, its still a clunky and arbitrary system that has no relationship to end user parking demand and makes housing more expensive by bundling parking.
- We don't charge for use of a street outside a few busy areas in the city centre. Free storage for some, at the expense of everyone.
- We still have never gotten close to charging for the other big actual problems where car owners cause it but everyone else pays for it - congestion and local pollution/noise.
- And my favourite, streets are publicly plowed and paid for by all taxpayers whether you drive or not, but sidewalks to walk to your free-parked car or work are not worth tax dollars to plow and left to the individual responsibility of owners, to shabby results.
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
So I had a look, and here's the situation on an annual parking pass in major cities across Canada and a few peer cities in the US (all costs are for areas where parking passes are required; before tax).
Victoria
Free
Vancouver
$43-86 per year depending on area -- West End residents pay a market rate of $382*; cap of two vehicles
Calgary
Free for first two vehicles, $51 after
Edmonton
Free
Winnipeg
$25
Toronto
$207 for first vehicle, $641 for subsequent vehicles; $901 for vehicles where owner has access to off-street parking. Areas have caps on permits, some areas have wait lists.
Hamilton
$92
Ottawa
$715 with monthly seasonal parking available ($115/mo Dec-Mar; $30/mo rest of year)
Montreal
Très complicated; varies by vehicle engine size and fuel as well as by borough; range of $11 to 235* for a 2.9L gas engine car; example of Rosemont-Petite Patrie: $64 electric, $95 hybrid <3L or gas <2L, $125 hybrid 3L+, gas 2L+
Halifax
$41; one permit per dwelling unit
Seattle
Mostly $32; some areas have discounts for first or second vehicle that are subsidized by local institutions (hospitals/PSE)
Portland
$75-370*; parking capped in areas by spaces
Denver
Free
Minneapolis
$25
* indicates low income options available
We are an outlier on the low side. While I'd actually like something super complex like Montreal, (but maybe more punitive in my heart of hearts) a reasonable compromise starting point could be $10/month for the first vehicle, $20/month for the second, and so on. A reasonable fee to recover the admin/enforcement costs if nothing else, and to discourage hoarding by one household. With higher prices in areas where demand exceeds supply; the only response to complaints about parking availability should be increases in parking costs.
Victoria
Free
Vancouver
$43-86 per year depending on area -- West End residents pay a market rate of $382*; cap of two vehicles
Calgary
Free for first two vehicles, $51 after
Edmonton
Free
Winnipeg
$25
Toronto
$207 for first vehicle, $641 for subsequent vehicles; $901 for vehicles where owner has access to off-street parking. Areas have caps on permits, some areas have wait lists.
Hamilton
$92
Ottawa
$715 with monthly seasonal parking available ($115/mo Dec-Mar; $30/mo rest of year)
Montreal
Très complicated; varies by vehicle engine size and fuel as well as by borough; range of $11 to 235* for a 2.9L gas engine car; example of Rosemont-Petite Patrie: $64 electric, $95 hybrid <3L or gas <2L, $125 hybrid 3L+, gas 2L+
Halifax
$41; one permit per dwelling unit
Seattle
Mostly $32; some areas have discounts for first or second vehicle that are subsidized by local institutions (hospitals/PSE)
Portland
$75-370*; parking capped in areas by spaces
Denver
Free
Minneapolis
$25
* indicates low income options available
We are an outlier on the low side. While I'd actually like something super complex like Montreal, (but maybe more punitive in my heart of hearts) a reasonable compromise starting point could be $10/month for the first vehicle, $20/month for the second, and so on. A reasonable fee to recover the admin/enforcement costs if nothing else, and to discourage hoarding by one household. With higher prices in areas where demand exceeds supply; the only response to complaints about parking availability should be increases in parking costs.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
I'd really, really, really love the vehicle length charge to become more of a thing. It's readily available information and directly connects to the whole point of charging for parking - if you want to use more public space you should pay more for it.
potatopizzafan
Active Member
And if you have a 2 car garage but park your 2 vehicles on the street you should pay $100/day
adamyyc
Active Member
There's a limousine that is parked on a street not far from my house and I constantly think about how this person is taking up 3 parking spaces for a vehicle that should be parked in a lot.
Kōsō
Active Member
There is a great book on this whole topic that is a worthwhile read.
The High Cost of Free Parking by Donald Shoup
The High Cost of Free Parking by Donald Shoup
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Totally agree, a must-read for anyone interested in this stuff - Shoup converted me a while back. Once he shows you how crazy the world of parking is you can't unsee it. It also forshadows tons of other evidence-lite planning and building regulations we do because of ... reasons.
Most non-urban nerds never imagine something as boring as parking regulations influencing their lives far more than many things of way higher profile.
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Alex_YYC
Senior Member
Mission infill
