[Alex_YYC]

I have noticed over the years that people in Alberta often refer to them selves as Albertans before referring to themselves as Canadians. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, or if it makes difference.
I find that people from Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Quebec also tend to refer to themselves by the province first.

 

[TysonR]

Most of this Alberta vs Toronto stuff is media created and perception based. The average Torontonian is ambivalent about Alberta, if you asked them pointedly about Alberta politics, they would have a negative view, but outside of that, they are either ambivalent, or they like it. The people from Toronto I've known who has visited Calgary liked their visit and the city The number of people in Toronto who dislike Calgary are less than the number of Calgarians who dislike Toronto.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Most of this Alberta vs Toronto stuff is media created and perception based. The average Torontonian is ambivalent about Alberta, if you asked them pointedly about Alberta politics, they would have a negative view, but outside of that, they are either ambivalent, or they like it. The people from Toronto I've known who has visited Calgary liked their visit and the city The number of people in Toronto who dislike Calgary are less than the number of Calgarians who dislike Toronto.

Toronto is kind of a special case. I see a lot of dislike towards Toronto here in Calgary, but I also see it in other parts of the country....the whole center of the universe thing. I don't see people disliking the city so much as disliking it for being the media center of the country and the biggest city. There are also times when people from Toronto could help their own cause. In my last job I worked with people from Toronto a fair bit, it's comments like "really, no Cambodian restaurants in Calgary? I don't know how people live there" <--- That's an actual comment I received. or another comment like "I couldn't live in place without a major league baseball team"
That said, Calgarians are also their own worst enemy at times. Calgarians bristle at any criticism toward the city, whether justified or not. Having been the centre for Oil and Gas, which has been put in a negative light for some time now, a lot of people in the city are in battle mode, with a us against the world attitude.
I'm not trying to be down on oil and gas, it is what it is, but I feel that once that industry is a much lower part of Calgary, things will change. A lot of this battling and negativity city vs city stuff will go away.

 

[DougB]

I don't get the perception that Calgary has to "move on" from being an O&G town. In no way does the strong O&G economic contribution impede the city's evolution. If anything, it facilitates by attracting talented people and generating investment returns. Calgary has always been a city of hucksters. Entrepreneurism propelled the O&G industry and it will propel whatever drives growth growing forward. The perceptions of Laurentian politicians, commentators and NGO's will always be myopic and more importantly, irrelevant as their vision has always centered on protecting their franchises from competition. Considering their opinions is and has always been a waste of time.

 

[Surrealplaces]

It depends on the definition of 'moving on'. IMO, we already have, at least from a mentality perspective. Oil and gas isn't going anywhere soon, but we needed to accept the idea that it's an industry in decline, and away from relaying on it too much. Changing the mentality enough to be open to planning for a different future. I think that part's been accomplished, and if the decline of oil and gas is a slow steady decline, it'll help everything should fall into place.

 

[CBBarnett]

The perceptions of Laurentian politicians, commentators and NGO's will always be myopic and more importantly, irrelevant as their vision has always centered on protecting their franchises from competition. Considering their opinions is and has always been a waste of time.

Myopic "me first" visions isn't a uniquely eastern Canadian thing - your statement is exactly the same charge that can be thrust upon the attitude in Alberta's elite and the oil industry too.

Continuous opposition to carbon pollution regulations of both the province and industry are examples of this. The decades and decades of industry and elite capture of Alberta's political and regulatory regimes to ensure we weakly create then weakly enforce environmental legislation are examples of this. Alberta keeps up with a long provincial history of cronyism is exactly this too - myopic "me first" attitudes that make some individuals and industries very wealthy and connected, other industries and people struggling and disconnected from the levers of influence and power, and a public with ginormous financial and environmental liabilities to pay for all the fun and games being had.

But hey - those environmentalists (and other people on the planet) are just being myopic protecting their own, why should we listen to them? Alberta has a strong and proud population of 4.7 million people people - unfortunately that's only a disappointing 12% of Canadians. But if we look only at ourselves we make up 100% of the people. 100% is a larger number than 12% - winning!

Everyone is myopic in their own bubble - Alberta is exactly the same. If we didn't have oil and gas it would be something else, as it is in every other province. Provincialism, cronyism and myopic localism are embedding in every area of Canadian society, which Alberta's elites and government proudly does it's part in flaunting at every possible turn. Alberta is painfully Canadian in this regard.

Perhaps it's not even just a Canadian phenomenon either. Myopic attitudes may just be a function of how modern countries work where there is always tension between globalizing economic forces, centralizing political ones, and local/regional peculiarities.

 

[Beltline_B]

The posts in this thread echo what I feel. Calgary has moved on mentally, but not physically. Anyone who thinks that the oil industry is going to disappear in the next 5 to 10 years is mistaken, it will be around for a long time yet.
At the same time, Calgarians have accepted that it won’t be the industry it was in past years and for sure it will be in decline. It’s just a matter of how long and how slow.
What I am seeing out there in the workforce, on social media, and amongst my social circles, etc. is that most people are in the mode of moving on and embracing a new Calgary.

 

[DougB]

Myopic "me first" visions isn't a uniquely eastern Canadian thing - your statement is exactly the same charge that can be thrust upon the attitude in Alberta's elite and the oil industry too.

Continuous opposition to carbon pollution regulations of both the province and industry are examples of this. The decades and decades of industry and elite capture of Alberta's political and regulatory regimes to ensure we weakly create then weakly enforce environmental legislation are examples of this. Alberta keeps up with a long provincial history of cronyism is exactly this too - myopic "me first" attitudes that make some individuals and industries very wealthy and connected, other industries and people struggling and disconnected from the levers of influence and power, and a public with ginormous financial and environmental liabilities to pay for all the fun and games being had.

But hey - those environmentalists (and other people on the planet) are just being myopic protecting their own, why should we listen to them? Alberta has a strong and proud population of 4.7 million people people - unfortunately that's only a disappointing 12% of Canadians. But if we look only at ourselves we make up 100% of the people. 100% is a larger number than 12% - winning!

Everyone is myopic in their own bubble - Alberta is exactly the same. If we didn't have oil and gas it would be something else, as it is in every other province. Provincialism, cronyism and myopic localism are embedding in every area of Canadian society, which Alberta's elites and government proudly does it's part in flaunting at every possible turn. Alberta is painfully Canadian in this regard.

Perhaps it's not even just a Canadian phenomenon either. Myopic attitudes may just be a function of how modern countries work where there is always tension between globalizing economic forces, centralizing political ones, and local/regional peculiarities.

I disagree. Only the Alberta and federal governments fail to accept reality in overfunding public services by selling off assets (i.e. the province's stake in O&G production and the disproportionately large federal taxes paid by the industry). Ultimately, both will need to bring their cost structures down to levels that can be sustained through tax revenues without borrowing. The Alberta government in particular will need to address its capture by public sector unions who enjoy by far the highest compensation in the country.

It is myopic to think that Canada can lead on carbon regulation. The Canadian economy is a price taker and can only react to global markets.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

I realized I actually put together a look at the industry mix in the Calgary CMA but never posted it. The standard classification for industries, NAICS, has 20 categories. Here's the current mix:

Note oil and gas in the bottom center, with a black outline, a little under 5%.

With 20 categories, it's hard to make a single chart over time. Here's four of them, breaking the industries into groups by size and by how much they've changed: The 1991 and 1996 numbers are from an older industry system; it mostly maps on to the current one but there are a few categories (marked with asterisks) that aren't perfect matches.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Really good numbers @ByeByeBaby A lot less jobs directly related to oil and gas than I thought. My only question would be how much of professional/technical, construction, and transportation/warehousing would be indirectly related to oil and gas? Either way the numbers aren't near as high as one might expect. Clearly the percentage of oil and gas jobs is on the decline.

 

[Alex_YYC]

I don't get the perception that Calgary has to "move on" from being an O&G town. In no way does the strong O&G economic contribution impede the city's evolution. If anything, it facilitates by attracting talented people and generating investment returns. Calgary has always been a city of hucksters. Entrepreneurism propelled the O&G industry and it will propel whatever drives growth growing forward. The perceptions of Laurentian politicians, commentators and NGO's will always be myopic and more importantly, irrelevant as their vision has always centered on protecting their franchises from competition. Considering their opinions is and has always been a waste of time.

Once upon a time entrepreneurism propelled the industry, but in 2023 it's mostly a handful of large firms run by out of province stockholders who couldn't care less about Alberta, and I don't think an industry facing inevitable decline will propel our growth forward. It's still a large part of our economy, for sure, but it's going to be less and less as we go.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I think most people agree that oil and gas won't be going anywhere soon. It's in decline, but not going anywhere for a while at least. Interesting article about its future.

Trevor Tombe: Alberta’s oil bonanza could last another generation, at least

thehub.ca

 

[trtcttc]

I think most people agree that oil and gas won't be going anywhere soon. It's in decline, but not going anywhere for a while at least. Interesting article about its future.

Trevor Tombe: Alberta’s oil bonanza could last another generation, at least

thehub.ca

Definitely interesting. I think both the provincial and federal government are to blame for squabbling over somewhat meaningless policies. Alberta government cannot insulate our O&G sector from global trends and the federal government cannot legislate out the need for non-renewable resources. We need to extract as much out of our natural resources while we can and invest it. The Heritage Fund has been a fumbled mess, it needs to be able to invest without political interference to chase the highest returns around the world. We've managed to save a paltry 20 billion. The Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan is at 245B.

 

[Surrealplaces]

I'm too lazy to do the research, but maybe someone knows off the top of their head why the Heritage Fund is so low? $20 Billion is a good chunk of money, but it should be much higher.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I don't mind the Albertans thing. Calgarians don't have the Toronto or even Vancouver mentality for that matter where they think, rightly or wrongly, that their province revolves around them. Alberta is not Calgary's and I like that people who live here don't think of it that way. Granted I'm born and raised in Alberta (with a sprinkle of living overseas in there), but the things that make Calgary, Calgary is that it's in Alberta. Foothills and Mountains, Alberta's not Calgary's. Oil and Gas, Alberta's not Calgary's (Calgary was really just the office at the front of the Alberta Warehouse). I credit the Oil and Gas with making this city the urban, diverse, exciting city that it is. Without it, we're Casper Wyoming. Saying all that...

Calgary definitely needs to do its own bidding. For a long time, it was: Alberta wins, Calgary wins. We do need to be more selfish. This is a cool city, is it Vancouver or Toronto? No but that's the best part about it, it's its own thing. We're on the come-up and we can be a lot of things to a lot of people. We're defining what that is but do need to do a better job of broad messaging. I hear about Calgary doing the little things (getting on to startup rankings) but some big viral thing that shifts the narative would be good.

I don't think Torontonians and Vancouverites think their province revolves around them. I just don't think Torontonians identify more strongly with, say, Thunder Bay or Windsor, than they do with Vancouver or Montreal. The same can be said about Vancouverites not feeling particularly close to Prince George or Kamloops. From that point of view, it's strange that Calgarians would have strong identification with Grande Prairie or Medicine Hat.

I agree with you that the O&G industry is fundamentally provincial. To the extent that our lives revolve around O&G, it's something that holds us together as a province. Perhaps this explains the difference. There's no equivalent in BC or Ontario. Nonetheless, this brings me back to my original point: Calgary "moving on" from being an O&G town will also mean Calgary standing on its own in a cultural and economic sense rather than being a regional hub.

One final note: unlike you, I did not grow up in Alberta. I moved to Calgary as an adult to take a job that is unrelated to O&G. I have almost no identification with the rural areas of Alberta, nor feel any responsibility to feel closer to these areas than I do to any other part of Canada. This is why it seems so strange to me personally that most Calgarians identify primarily as "Albertans".