[circuitboy84]

Recently there has been a flurry of new developments in the downtown core. Condos are popping up everywhere and Toronto is poised to welcome 3 new office towers to its skyline.
My question to you all is do you think the cities infrastructure can handle the influx of people in the core?

With the combination of RBC Centre, Telus, and Bay Adelaide centre we will be adding approximately 15,000 people working in the core in the next 2 years. The other significant buildings proposed or under construction in the area are Maple Leaf Square, Ritz Carlton, Shangri-La, 151 Front Street West, Sapphire Tower, Trump Tower, and the massive Cityplace development. All of these structures will probably be completed by 2012.


These people will be using the several core subway stops, Queen, King, St. Andrew, Osgoode, and most importantly Union station. We will also see a significant increase in GO transit passengers.

The King and Queen streetcars are already packed and frustrating to use going in and out of the core.

Road usage during peak periods is already at capacity. The Gardiner is usually slow between 8am - 10am and again at 3pm - 6pm. The major arteries become gridlock; Front, Spadina, Bay, University, York etc.

Toronto has not seen such an increase in people in the core for two decades. From my knowledge trying to move whether on foot through the PATH, in a car, or on transit during peak periods is a harrowing experience already.

To my knowledge the following projects are designed to help curb the problem. The PATH extension, the King street ROW, the Simcoe and Front street extension's.

What can Toronto do to alleviate the impending crisis?

Lake shore at "rush hour".

Union during peak usage.

Looking up Peter Street from Front to Queen Streets after a Jays game.

 

[EnviroTO]

GO will open a new west teamway, is adding tracks, and on some routes is lengthening trains. Union station is getting a new subway platform. King Street will get a ROW if it gets approved and the new streetcars which are expected to be ordered next year will handle more passengers. Each of the new subway trains already on order will handle an estimated 8% more passengers when they arrive.

There isn't much that can be done to deal with vehicle traffic though, especially after a Blue Jays game. The good news is that for people who don't want to be stuck in that traffic jam there are public transit options unlike many of the other stadiums in North America.

 

[roch5220]

In the last community report I saw for downtown (2001), a high number of people either walked or biked to work. Also, the TTC going north bound from union isn't nearly as busy as people going south. I would imagine the same for streetcars going out of the core. I don't see an issue.

Espcially, more condos = more residents, more offices, = more jobs.

 

[Observer Walt]

^ All of this is true, and even with new developments currently in process, this city is not nearly as congested as some. However, transit remains a problem, particularly in the east-west direction downtown. Both the King and Queen streetcars are heading toward being disasters, if something isn't done.

There has been some good discussion on Steve Munro's website over the most recent few weeks, regarding transit options. He's very knowledgeable. I recommend a scan of some of his comments, and the comments posted by various people in response.
www.stevemunro.ca/

 

[CSW24]

I think premise of the initial question is a bit harsh. No, I do not think that the core is poised to destroy itself. Destruction is very dramatic.

The development of the core is consistent with congestion (at least peak-hour) reduction given that a mix of employment, retail, entertainment, institutional and residential high-rises are essential for transit-usage and cycling/walking to and from work. It is better now that more people live in downtown than it was in the past when the core was mainly a commercial area. More people living in the core helps to improve the off-peak hour usage of transit as well.

Given that, transit infrastructure is entirely inadequate in the core. So while I disagree that the core is poised to destroy itself I agree that work needs to be done to improve the core, especially to facilitate the new residents looking to get places other then Y-U-S. A front-street ROW, Queen underground LRT and DRL are all ideas for how to improve the core. Unfortunatley lack of money, political will and competence impede opportunities to change the status-quo.

 

[cdl42]

Are there any examples anywhere, at any point in history of a city destroying itself by being too popular?

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Unfortunatley lack of money, political will and competence impede opportunities to change the status-quo.

This will change as more voters move into the core.

 

[CSW24]

"This will change as more voters move into the core. "

I consider myself to be an optimist but I have to be honest, I don't agree with this statement. Just based on the political structure of country, province and city, downtown Toronto will never get its proportional share of the public investment goodie bag that it deserves.

Since the increase in population is unlikely to change the riding boundaries (especially if the Conservatives stay in power under a majority) from the Federal perspective I fail to see how Toronto voters will gain any real increased clout. Provincially, it has been political suicide for Premiers to show any love for Toronto, especially downtown because the suburbs and fringe will shift their weight. Locally, there is not enough money, capacity or (I hate to say it) competence to make anything happen. They need provincial and federal funds and they won't get it unless all of Toronto revolts in some dramatic, seperatist-like fashion (and even then we won't be heard). I don't advocate any of this nor do I feel tha this very real political reality is fair. But it is a true reality and no marginal or substantial amount of new voters will sway decision makers.

Also, there is a strong counter-argument that the suburbs are going to absorb just as much or more population (census and ontario growth forecast statistics confirm this) so one would expect political clout to remain highest in the sprawling suburbs.

 

[Darkstar416]

...although urban/suburban problems are becoming increasingly blurred in T.O. Also, with the G.T.A. increasingly voting as a bloc, our power shouldn't necessarily be underestimated either.

 

[simply Dan]

While I find the title of this thread to be unnecessarily sensationalistic and irrational, some very valid points have been raised here – namely the lack of high-quality transportation options in an ever-expanding downtown core.

Adding more roads would be counterproductive at best – like adding an ever-more comfortable stretchy waistband for an obese person. Increased road capacity is no solution for the problem of gridlock, but rather encourages car use and complicates the problem further.

The more realistic and intelligent solution of course is beefing up public transportation – GO Transit for suburban commuters (leave the car at home) and TTC for inter-urban transport. Add an expanded PATH and better-designed intersections and sidewalks to encourage foot traffic in the core, and a significantly upgraded – and enforced – bike lane network - not only in the core but in all areas of the city - would help to ease congestion.

As Ed pointed out, the more voters who move into the core, the more things will change in the future as people begin to give up their outdated suburban ideologies and embrace their new urban way of life. Automobile use in the downtown core should be discouraged as much as possible and priority (and funding) should be given to alternative modes of transportation – namely the TTC. Don’t want to give up your car? Move back to the 905 where the gridlocked roads are a football field wide; or stop complaining when another lane of traffic is to be given over to cyclists or a streetcar. There’s an obvious reason why the old city of Toronto is much more liveable when compared to a place like Phoenix.

 

[Chuck100]

The growth of reverse direction commuting is outpacing residential growth in the inner city, meaning that a typical inner city resident is more likely to work in the suburbs, and more likely to get there by car today than ever before. Unless new residents to the city quit their suburban jobs and start working downtown, we'll see huge congestion problems in the future.

 

[simply Dan]

...more reason for GO Transit to get an overhaul. What Toronto really needs is S-bahns, not giant hulking diesel trains hauling in secretaries like cattle every day.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

I find the whole concept of "congestion" to be quite interesting. Congestion is primarily a problem for people who do not live in a neighbourhood or region, as they are the ones who need to get in, out, or through it quickly. It may be annoying for me if there's a lot of traffic while I'm walking home from work, but doesn't affect my ability to get around.

As more people continue to move into the core, I'd imagine that there will be more conflicts with regard to differing priorities. Local residents, pedestrians, cyclists, transit users, local drivers, and 'non-local' drivers all have different priorities for how we use the roads, and it will be interesting to see how population shifts will affect which priorities win out.

 

[Degnaw]

What Toronto really needs is S-bahns, not giant hulking diesel trains hauling in secretaries like cattle every day.

With frequencies of less than 15 minutes at peak hours on the lakeshore line, I fail to see how those passengers can be carried on smaller trains.

 

[circuitboy84]

I would just like to say thank you to all of you for your comments and thoughts. For those of you who commented on the title, the thread name was meant to draw interest more than to be taken seriously.

Some very good points have been raised here, namely consistent and regular service from the core to the suburbs and also from suburban centres to other suburban centres (Square one to Scarborough Centre etc.).

Reverse commuting is becoming a major problem as often times the Gardiner is just as busy going out of the city in the morning as it is coming in and vice versa. I think people assuming that the condos that are being built are being inhabited by a large number of people who will walk to work are disillusioned. It would be interesting to know what the number of people who live in the core who commute to other areas of the city is.

I agree that adding more roads is not a solution to the problem, but it must not be overlooked either. Cars are necessary as are delivery trucks and vans who must get supplies to and from all these added people/workers in the area.

On a more personal note, the King and Queen streetcars already are disasters during peak periods. I take both cars regularly through the core in the morning and find it difficult to fit onto the cars. Furthermore once being on the streetcar it is a slow crawl through downtown.

Once again, thank you everyone for your comments. Please keep them coming.