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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
So the east side has some money. I do see some big houses at beach.
M.R.Victor
Active Member
East Side may have some money, but it seems not to translate very well into vibrant urbanism overall. Perhaps nimby-ism comes into play? Perhaps age profiles do as well?
Cooper
Senior Member
Playter estates/Rosedale
Leslieville/Parkdale (although they have different types of hipsterism. Fewer 20-somethings in L-ville.)
Little Italy/Greektown (I'm thinking College/Clinton v. Danforth/Carlaw)
There are a bunch more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
I'm not certain what you mean by 'vibrant urbanism' exactly, but as a long-time Riverdalian, I'd say that the mix of Danforth/Gerrard/Queen, with Withrow Park providing the neighbourhood focus, was fabulous. The Beach, with all its summer craziness, would also be a pretty close match to Little Italy, say... although not during the winter.
My one cousin was a big Drake Hotel area fan, my other cousin bought a place in Riverside. Both were adamant their choice was THE hipster heaven. To each his own.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
I think it's the Don. There's a more contiguous urban vibe going westward and as noted the west side developed earlier than the east side. East of the Don is more of a "bedroom" community and you have an older, more established demographic, more likely to be homeowners, less apartments and housing stock to appeal to "hipsters" etc. Note too that the population of the west end is double that of the east end, so the Beaches (which is pretty homogeneously upper middle class) actually makes up a pretty significant share of the east end's entire population.
I'm pretty sure west side housing prices are higher on average, but the difference is probably more based on neighborhood than "side" (Beaches and High Park probably have similar housing prices). The east side probably comes ahead on income simply because it has fewer renters and a higher percentage in SFHs.
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King of Kensington
Senior Member
How so?
ksun
Senior Member
All the Pickering nuclear plants will be shut down by 2020 and there is no plan to refurbish or build new ones.
nfitz
Superstar
Good grief, I don't think it ever crossed my mind. I suppose it might influence some to stay west, but I'd imagine that those family-killing smelly diesels are also scaring some from not buying in Weston (seriously though, I do wonder why anyone would buy a house in parts of Mississauga like Streetsville), with loud jets flying over every 90 seconds.
That's the plan for Pickering B. As far as I know, Pickering A1 and A4 will be going longer. Though in reality I'd be surprised if come 2025 there were no reactors running at Pickering! There's nothing to stop a future government deciding to rehab Pickering A2, A3, or Pickering B1 to B4.
Or perhaps this new Lockheed Martin fusion reactor will pay-off, and they'll stick one of those at Pickering ... who knows what the future holds!
Cooper
Senior Member
Yeah. What on earth is "vibrant urbanism," anyway? I live on Queen Street East in the Carlaw area. Sure, there's a demographic difference between my neighbourhood and parts of Queen St. W., (i.e. much less of a young hipster scene) but some of the comments here about walkability, services, entertainment etc. make me wonder if some have ventured across the Don in the last decade or so. I'm not even sure what people are talking about when they say "east end" or "east side." It's a big place, just like the west end, which has plenty of dreary spots, too. I'll admit this thread is making feel somewhat defensive, but RRD nails it. There's lots to choose from on both sides of the city. Pick your poison and be happy with it. I like pretty much all of it, regardless of where I pay my mortgage.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
East end - old city of Toronto east of the Don
West end - old city of Toronto west of Bathurst
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
"Ends" or "Sides": How cities/regions use these terms...
K of K : Your post showing what Toronto's East and West Ends are answers my question there...
Was the City of Toronto in the Eglinton/Yonge vicinity ever referred to as the "North End"?
I note the terms "End" instead of "Side" used - Were these designations coined by the WASP or British immigrants that
founded and once were predominate in Toronto? I have noted the "End" term used in primarily New England US cities such as Boston...
I remember well the 80s Pet Shop Boys song "West End Girls" (and East End Boys) referring to London,England UK...
In New York (Manhattan) East and West Sides mean which side of Fifth Avenue (or Central Park) that you are on...
South of Washington Square Park Broadway separates Lower Manhattan from E to W...
This makes me think of a old New York song lyric: "East Side West Side All Around The Town"
On Long Island "East End" means primarily the Twin Forks of Long Island E of Riverhead - the five easternmost town(ships) of Suffolk County
which are Riverhead,Southold (on the North Fork),Shelter Island (between the Twin Forks); Southampton and East Hampton on the South Fork
(which include the Hamptons and Montauk resorts) and sometimes there is referral to "West End" on LI which is Nassau County and the NYC
Boroughs of Queens and Brooklyn which physically are on Long Island E to W...
In Philadelphia and Baltimore sides or ends are not used at all - instead it is the direction the specific part of the city is located from its
respective Downtown (Center City as Philadelphia's is known) such as "Northeast Philadelphia" or "West Baltimore"
In Washington,DC it is the four directions from the US Capitol Building: NW,NE,SE and SW...
In Cleveland the two sections of the City are referred to as "East Side and West Side" and I remember references that Cleveland is
actually two separate cities or sides joined by a common Downtown...
Chicago uses "sides" again in a geographic manner in the direction that neighborhoods are in from Chicago's Downtown (or "Loop")
and at times the terms "near" or "far" is used such as "Near North Side" or "Far South Side" depending on distance from Downtown
The area that I am most familiar with is the "Southwest Side" in which my relatives once resided...
I have been interested in how cities use the terms "Ends" or "Sides" in how they refer to where neighborhoods are as compared
to central cities - it is part of my interest in cities/regions and their geography...
LI MIKE
K of K : Your post showing what Toronto's East and West Ends are answers my question there...
Was the City of Toronto in the Eglinton/Yonge vicinity ever referred to as the "North End"?
I note the terms "End" instead of "Side" used - Were these designations coined by the WASP or British immigrants that
founded and once were predominate in Toronto? I have noted the "End" term used in primarily New England US cities such as Boston...
I remember well the 80s Pet Shop Boys song "West End Girls" (and East End Boys) referring to London,England UK...
In New York (Manhattan) East and West Sides mean which side of Fifth Avenue (or Central Park) that you are on...
South of Washington Square Park Broadway separates Lower Manhattan from E to W...
This makes me think of a old New York song lyric: "East Side West Side All Around The Town"
On Long Island "East End" means primarily the Twin Forks of Long Island E of Riverhead - the five easternmost town(ships) of Suffolk County
which are Riverhead,Southold (on the North Fork),Shelter Island (between the Twin Forks); Southampton and East Hampton on the South Fork
(which include the Hamptons and Montauk resorts) and sometimes there is referral to "West End" on LI which is Nassau County and the NYC
Boroughs of Queens and Brooklyn which physically are on Long Island E to W...
In Philadelphia and Baltimore sides or ends are not used at all - instead it is the direction the specific part of the city is located from its
respective Downtown (Center City as Philadelphia's is known) such as "Northeast Philadelphia" or "West Baltimore"
In Washington,DC it is the four directions from the US Capitol Building: NW,NE,SE and SW...
In Cleveland the two sections of the City are referred to as "East Side and West Side" and I remember references that Cleveland is
actually two separate cities or sides joined by a common Downtown...
Chicago uses "sides" again in a geographic manner in the direction that neighborhoods are in from Chicago's Downtown (or "Loop")
and at times the terms "near" or "far" is used such as "Near North Side" or "Far South Side" depending on distance from Downtown
The area that I am most familiar with is the "Southwest Side" in which my relatives once resided...
I have been interested in how cities use the terms "Ends" or "Sides" in how they refer to where neighborhoods are as compared
to central cities - it is part of my interest in cities/regions and their geography...
LI MIKE
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King of Kensington
Senior Member
No, Yonge and Eglinton would be part of North Toronto, which is basically the area centered around Yonge north of St. Clair. It's never been referred to as the "north end."
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Memph
Active Member
I feel like the parts of the East Side that have vibrant urbanism are still smaller than in the West Side though. The Beaches were pretty sleepy even when I was biking around there in mid September this year. Basically the area you're describing (West of Jones or so) is mostly the 19th century part of the East End and it is similar to the 19th century part of the West End in terms of vibrancy but not in terms of size. The 20th century streetcar suburbs of the East End are imo similar to those of the West End, which are much more expansive, and include St Clair West, High Park, South Etobicoke and you can even include the trolleybus suburbs of Eglinton West and Bloor/Royal York as having a similar feel.
You are seeing very intense gentrification happening in the East End now though. In terms of change in income between the 2006 census and 2011 National Household Survey, pretty much the whole east end has since significant gentrification, the Old Toronto part but also parts of Old East York and pushing into SW Scarborough.
The West End is more mixed, overall it is gentrifying but much of it at a more moderate pace, covering the areas south of Dundas up to Kipling (New Toronto excepted).
North Toronto hasn't really seen an increase in income in this time interval, I guess it's already gentrified, being the wealthiest part of the GTA, so it can't really go much higher.
You also seem to be seeing significant increases in income in a few areas further out, including Weston and some of the surrounding 40s/50s suburbia like Maple Leaf, and in the NE in St Andrews-Windfields, York Mills/DVP area and Wexford. Areas even further out aren't in uniform decline, although there are several areas, both in the 416 and 905 suburbs that have experienced declines in income.
Obviously when you look at income change at the census tract level, new construction will have an effect. For example there's a census tract in SE Oakville that includes part of the GO Station area, and there were 1-2 new condos built there, which I guess catered "merely" towards the middle/upper middle class bringing the census tract household income down even though the neighbourhood has otherwise been getting wealthier. On the other hand with the GTA fringe you might have a lot of big new homes built in census tracts that previously had more modest homes, but the incomes of the people living in the more modest homes didn't necessarily increase even though that of the census tract did.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
These maps show that development east of the Don occurred later than on the west side.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/20987-Toronto-built-up-area-since-1901