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Not Bloor/Islington, I was referring to the relocation of MT terminal to Kipling. Both subway locations have very limited available land surrounding them and playing bait and switch with the terminus location does nothing to address the fact roadways (Dundas, Bloor, Burnhamthrope) are highly trafficked east of Dixie, and hence only a few minutes are spared by this. I doubt people on MT would transfer onto GO or vice-versa if they'd still need to use the TTC, so the need for a mega-terminus at Kipling has me scratching my head. Either extend the subway to Highway 427 or invest into BRT ROW, long-term solutions.

I wouldn't exactly call ECC sprawl unless you'd classly STC, Fairview, Yorkdale, Markville, Richmond Hill Centre and Sherway the same way (urban centres in proximity to and reliant on major highways for their existence).
 
Moving MT's buses to Kipling will save a few minutes on commutes for MT riders every day, will give them the option of GOing it to downtown, will chop the amount of fuel MT buses used driving to Islington, will lessen congestion around Islington station, will make residents in the area happier when buses are off their streets, will free-up land at Islington for intensified development: it's win, win, win, win, win, etc.

I agree that the subway should be extended further west, but barring that, this is all good news.

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Don't forget there is already a proposal to build a new office building on the site ... dunno how you can beat that.
 
That's right, surprised they put it up online so quickly. Over in the Kipling thread, I have a pic of the map not shown on the slides - the ECC development proposals and U/C map and a pic of the meeting crowd (pick out the UT forumer!)
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks for the development summary pic - it gives an excellent overview was to what's going on in the area; shocking how messy and a-hoc the area is (then again, it's Etobicoke, right?)

re: online - bureaucracy can be really efficient sometimes...

AoD
 
ganjavih said:
I can't see people's faces very clearly in that photo... there's a huge glare coming off someone's forehead.
Click to expand...

Clearly an effect of the light from within!

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interchange42 said:
Moving MT's buses to Kipling will save a few minutes on commutes for MT riders every day, will give them the option of GOing it to downtown, will chop the amount of fuel MT buses used driving to Islington, will lessen congestion around Islington station, will make residents in the area happier when buses are off their streets, will free-up land at Islington for intensified development: it's win, win, win, win, win, etc.
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Click to expand...

Sorry to be the barer of bad news but...

Moving MT's buses to Kipling will not save a few minutes on commutes for MT riders every day, if anything you'll prolong them because you'd take buses from a straight and direct path, funneling straight to Islington and instead divert buses as far north as Burnhamthrope to a terminal that already has in excess of a dozen local routes. Islington's a great location because it only has 3 local routes, hence minimal competition for roadway.

And how exactly does anyone save time via the congested Bloor/Auckland/Dundas triangle? Like someone said earlier in the thread, it's quicker to get off the bus and walk. Everytime I've rode on a bus from Highway 427 it takes upwards of 10 mins to enter the bottleneck that is Kipling meanwhile I'd gaze out the window at MTs zooming past onwards to Islington.

Of course residents don't want more buses but bare in mind all the parked vehicles awaiting entry into Kipling will burn up even more fuel causing more enviro damage. Also just how much land you expect to become available? Not alot. All the parking spaces would be gone and all development limited to lands cut-off by the train line.

Finally yes MT riders could GO downtown but why the heck would they do that? Who would pay 4 bucks to Union then still have to pay the TTC (not everyone wants the CBD) when they could've done so in the first place. Better yet why would MT riders wait til they get to Kipling to ride the GO when there's Lisgar, Meadowvale, Streetsville, Eringate, Square One, Cooksville and Dixie all within their own city? Instead of moving MT to Kipling, how 'bout a more sensible suggestion like relocating Kipling GO to Islington thereby guaranteeing it'll become a major destination worthy of ECC billing.
 
DENTROBATE54 said:
Sorry to be the barer of bad news but...
Click to expand...

No no, go crazy...

Moving MT's buses to Kipling will not save a few minutes on commutes for MT riders every day, if anything you'll prolong them because you'd take buses from a straight and direct path, funneling straight to Islington and instead divert buses as far north as Burnhamthrope to a terminal that already has in excess of a dozen local routes. Islington's a great location because it only has 3 local routes, hence minimal competition for roadway.
Click to expand...

The new direct roadway access from Dundas to the new Mississauga & GO bus terminal will allow buses to avoid mixing with cars at Aukland. Of course it will save time.

And how exactly does anyone save time via the congested Bloor/Auckland/Dundas triangle? Like someone said earlier in the thread, it's quicker to get off the bus and walk.
Click to expand...

What they mean is that it is faster for them to get off a MT bus at Aukland and walk down to Kipling station to board the subway than it is for them to ride the MT bus all the way to Islington and change there. There's lots of congestion for the buses to deal with east of Kipling that they avoid by changing at Aukland.

Everytime I've rode on a bus from Highway 427 it takes upwards of 10 mins to enter the bottleneck that is Kipling meanwhile I'd gaze out the window at MTs zooming past onwards to Islington.
Click to expand...

Along which road do you mean? Once a bus is on Aukland south of Dundas the time getting into the station is 30 seconds at most. Leaving the station the Aukland/Dundas intersection can get too busy, but as I mentioned many buses are going to be diverted from that to a new access road, so that delay will ease.

Of course residents don't want more buses but bare in mind all the parked vehicles awaiting entry into Kipling will burn up even more fuel causing more enviro damage.
Click to expand...

As noted, that will not happen.

Also just how much land you expect to become available? Not alot. All the parking spaces would be gone and all development limited to lands cut-off by the train line.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that? Check out the pdfs and actually look at the plans before you make declarations of what others are doing. There are two developments proposed for Bloor west of Islington on the north side. The City may put up a building for a new Etobicoke Civic Centre at the corner, and SNC Lavalin is going in immediately west of that.

Finally yes MT riders could GO downtown but why the heck would they do that? Who would pay 4 bucks to Union then still have to pay the TTC (not everyone wants the CBD) when they could've done so in the first place. Better yet why would MT riders wait til they get to Kipling to ride the GO when there's Lisgar, Meadowvale, Streetsville, Eringate, Square One, Cooksville and Dixie all within their own city?
Click to expand...

It will make sense only for some, depending on which bus route they take to the subway and where they board it. At least they'll have the choice.

Instead of moving MT to Kipling, how 'bout a more sensible suggestion like relocating Kipling GO to Islington thereby guaranteeing it'll become a major destination worthy of ECC billing.
Click to expand...

Neither NYCC nor SCC have a GO station - it's not absolutely necessary. Meanwhile, the Westwood Theatre and Six Points Interchange lands are to be redeveloped into a westward expansion of the ECC, so those buildings will benefit from the Kipling GO/MT terminal.

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A lot of food for thought there. Not sure what to make of the giant mess, but it seems to make some sense. I would hope that the LRT's, while not built yet receive enough attention and that when the time comes that they are not relegated to some corner of the Kipling property. There needs to be seem-less transfers, regardless of the transit authority.

Also, does anyone else think that the TTC/City of Toronto needs to have someone look into creating a branding matrix for their powerpoint/presentations?

p5
 
Sat March 29-08 Open House

GO/MT/TTC will be hosting an open house on Sat March 29, 1-4pm at
Islington United Church 25 Burnhamthorpe Rd for the Islington and
Kipling station redevelopment.

Unusually for an open house on the weekend and more like a drop in
session.
 
DENTROBATE54 said:
Instead of moving MT to Kipling, how 'bout a more sensible suggestion like relocating Kipling GO to Islington thereby guaranteeing it'll become a major destination worthy of ECC billing.
Click to expand...

Actually, in the long run this is a really good idea. The Bloor-Islington intersection is already the de facto downtown of Etobicoke and this would create a regional transportation hub for the west side of Toronto. It would be especially powerful if we plan for a true regional rail system in the future.
 
I wouldn't be against having a GO stop at Islington, but there's no reason to keep MT here. The subway should be extended to at least the East Mall/427 area and MT's hub should be going there. Then you could closed Kipling GO and open one at the East Mall/427 station and Islington station.

Bloor/Islington should be an office commercial hub, not a major bus terminal.

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