Roy G Biv
Senior Member
It'd be nice if they electrified the whole route.
I was just in Munich, and those regional electrified trains are heaven.
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- Thread starter jks
- Start date
It'd be nice if they electrified the whole route.
I was just in Munich, and those regional electrified trains are heaven.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Yeah, I have to say transport in Munich is really nice. I am really amazed at the network. Having taken it all the way to Oberammergau, I was stunned at how well their network extends into the countryside.
As for electrifying the whole route, I presume that would be expensive enough so as to justify simply building HSR. Anyway, baby steps. Pouring 100s of millions into VIA is not like a federal government of any stripe. I'll take it!
H
Hydrogen
Guest
The electrifying of GO within the next two decades would be considered a small miracle.
Electrifying VIA? That's right up there with the second coming.
Electrifying VIA? That's right up there with the second coming.
cacruden
Senior Member
I was under the understanding that you loose roughly half of all energy when you transmit the power over lengthy distances (which is most of our resources), so if we electrify the trains and use the same fossil fuel generating plants - would we not end up using more energy? (floor is open on that question 
)
Assuming that is true, the if our research into super-conductors was successful - that would mean that we would almost double the energy available with no more generating capacity (floor also open on that statement)
)Assuming that is true, the if our research into super-conductors was successful - that would mean that we would almost double the energy available with no more generating capacity (floor also open on that statement
)afransen
Senior Member
Electric trains are a lot lighter than diesels (which are electric trains that carry their own generators on their back). There are also substantial economies of scale when transporting a few hundred passengers rather than a couple each in hundreds of cars.
As far as the grid goes, it is possible to transmit power over long distances with much lower tranmission losses using high voltage direct current (HVDC) technology, as Obama is doing as part of the modernization of the US electricity grid. The difference is something on the order of 1% transmission loss per 1000 km vs. 10% loss over the same distance using standard AC transmission technology.
As far as the grid goes, it is possible to transmit power over long distances with much lower tranmission losses using high voltage direct current (HVDC) technology, as Obama is doing as part of the modernization of the US electricity grid. The difference is something on the order of 1% transmission loss per 1000 km vs. 10% loss over the same distance using standard AC transmission technology.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I am not a power engineer but I am fairly sure there are probably issues with using HVDC to power a train.
However, going back to the original issue, while electrification would be nice, I doubt that it would be the wisest use of precious rail building dollars. It would provide somewhat more efficient service. However, the cost of electrifying line will surely outweigh whatever is saved electrifying the route.
As for the budget announcement, I still can't believe that folks aren't more excited about it. That's sad. If you want to convince Canadians to invest billions in HSR, improving VIA is probably the best advertisement for that effort.
afransen
Senior Member
I wasn't talking about trains. Presumably, one wouldn't try to power the entire route from one point, so the transmission issue is moot.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Actually it's relevant. If we are going to be using HVDC, we'd need to deploy a whole system of HV inverters to power that rail line.
As for converting the grid to HVDC....there's a better solution....locate your power generation closer to your consumer. In Ontario, we are actually fairly good at that.
afransen
Senior Member
Why would we need HVDC for a high speed line? Presumably there is existing service already located along the entire route.
digi
Active Member
You misunderstood.
yes, like Quebec has been doing for years....remember how they supplied power to the east coast during the August blackout a few years ago?
We don't. Unfortunately many don't understand HVDC transmission.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Never said we did. My bad. I thought you were suggesting that a future HSR be powered by HVDC.