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Q

quicksilver

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In 2007 the TTC had a scheme to create dedicated lanes on King Street but it failed, I think, because of opposition from storefront business owners.

I'm curious if more people could be moved by one dedicated streetcar lane on King and Queen than two lanes of mixed traffic on each street. Were the configuration to be curb-loading, no automobile traffic would be impacted except for the adjusted signalling required for left and right turns across the dedicated lane.

Here's an image of the directional concept. There's more of a description and a lane plan on my blog disruptionmonitor.com. (Sorry for the plug.)

KQDirectionsSmall.jpg
 
quicksilver said:
In 2007 the TTC had a scheme to create dedicated lanes on King Street but it failed, I think, because of opposition from storefront business owners.

I'm curious if more people could be moved by one dedicated streetcar lane on King and Queen than two lanes of mixed traffic on each street. Were the configuration to be curb-loading, no automobile traffic would be impacted except for the adjusted signalling required for left and right turns across the dedicated lane.

Here's an image of the directional concept. There's more of a description and a lane plan on my blog disruptionmonitor.com. (Sorry for the plug.)

KQDirectionsSmall.jpg
Click to expand...

I proposed something similar where the King and Queen streetcars are linked in a loop, but remain both in the middle of the road and bi directional. I wondered if this could/would reduce or make worse the delays experienced on both lines due to traffic congestion. If anything it would allow the use of the articulated streetcars on both routes.
 
The problem is that a streetcar ROW cause a massive hit in capacity on the street capacity, because vehicle movements over the ROW must be signal controlled, reducing the amount of green time and requiring extra space for turning lanes.
Take 2 situations:
1: The physically possible version of your proposal (2 lanes each on King and Queen)
2: The 2007 proposal (4 lanes on Queen, no lanes on King)
Although the number of lanes is the same, the 2007 proposal is better for all modes because it allows for more effective transit priority, and more green time for all streets (including cross-streets). Additionally, there would be extra space left over on King street, making it possible to put in bike lanes.

The brilliance of the King Street Mall concept was that it would have a very low impact on car capacity. By eliminating all turning movements on King other than right turns, it removes the need for additional signal phases, and allows for complete transit priority.

The other problem is that one-way transit lines tend to have lower ridership than if both directions are on the same street. I can't remember exactly why, but it might have something to do with the additional walking distance and less obvious layout.
 
Last edited:
Both King and Queen streetcars each could have ROWs if the streets were converted to one-way streets for regular traffic and the streetcar tracks were moved to the side.

Queen
Code: 
[B]<<< Auto/P <<<
<<<< Auto <<<<
<<<< Rail <<<<
>>>> Rail >>>>[/B]

King
Code: 
[B]<<<< Rail <<<<
>>>> Rail >>>>
>>>> Auto >>>>
>>> Auto/P >>>[/B]
 
With the province planning the first stage of the DRL to relieve Union Station congestion, I'm not even sure the current capacity on the streetcar routes will even be needed for long enough to make an investment in upping capacity worthwhile.
 
Darwinkgo said:
With the province planning the first stage of the DRL to relieve Union Station congestion, I'm not even sure the current capacity on the streetcar routes will even be needed for long enough to make an investment in upping capacity worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Can you point to source that says that the province is actively "planning the first stage of the DRL to relieve Union Station congestion". All I recall is a report which listed that as a possible option for 2031 and with no further studies or work underway.
 
CDL.TO said:
Can you point to source that says that the province is actively "planning the first stage of the DRL to relieve Union Station congestion". All I recall is a report which listed that as a possible option for 2031 and with no further studies or work underway.
Click to expand...

He is referring to the study of how to offload capacity from Union Station; options given we tunnel LakeShore or DRL + Bathurst GO Station.

Basically, DRL became a Yonge-Bloor/Union Relief Line.

That plan would most likely greatly increase streetcar ridership beacuse it makes taking Queen to the DRL much more appealing than a bus to Danforth then back south again.
 
rbt said:
He is referring to the study of how to offload capacity from Union Station; options given we tunnel LakeShore or DRL + Bathurst GO Station.

Basically, DRL became a Yonge-Bloor/Union Relief Line.

That plan would most likely greatly increase streetcar ridership beacuse it makes taking Queen to the DRL much more appealing than a bus to Danforth then back south again.
Click to expand...

That's the plan I was referring to as well. It did not specifically recommend a DRL (it was just one option) and in no way did it say that Metrolinx/the province is "planning the first stage of the DRL".
 
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