[Solid Snake]

They should build a ROW like St. Clair on both King and Queen between DVP and Roncevalles with a strict no parking bylaw.

 

[RC8]

That would push out bicycles and lead to a significant deterioration of the pedestrian experience if done incorrectly.

Furthermore, why do we want to prioritise drivers who are passing through the neighbourhood over anyone else? They should be the least of our priorities.

 

[Solid Snake]

That would push out bicycles and lead to a significant deterioration of the pedestrian experience if done incorrectly.

Furthermore, why do we want to prioritise drivers who are passing through the neighbourhood over anyone else? They should be the least of our priorities.

I'm not against an European all pedestrian, cyclist and streetcar street but I doubt Toronto is ready for that. Something like that was proposed for Mont-Royal Avenue in Montreal and it didn't fly.

If it's taboo in Montreal, imagine here

 

[MisterF]

^If Winnipeg can do it so can Toronto.

 

[RC8]

It 'not flying' would be completely due to political heavyweight stakeholders opposing the change out of fear of change itself.

There are many streets where If it was done it would be a social and economic success. There are no examples to the contrary that I can think of.

 

[reaperexpress]

But see the thing is, even if cars were banned from King, it would still only have a minimal effect on the quality and reliability of the service, because of the number of traffic lights and stops that the streetcar makes. It doesn't matter if it has a ROW or not, if it's stopping every 300m it isn't going to be a very fast service.

A minimal effect? I think it would have more than that. Eliminating cars also allows us to address those two issues.
1. With a ROW, we would likely be building platforms for all the stops, creating a political situation where it is easier to eliminate excessive stops
2. With cars gone, the lights along King can have powerful transit priority, thanks to their simplicity. And we know that even the TTC can build highly effective transit priority at simple intersections. Simply default to the cross street and change when there is a streetcar approaching, or it's been more than a minute or so since the last green (for the sake of cyclists). Additionally, with only transit and bicycles travelling along the street, there is less need for signals in the first place. Some minor intersections could have yield control and median pedestrian refuges instead.

I think people are taking "banning cars" too literally. We don't actually need to ban all automobiles, just those passing through. We can still keep some car access for deliveries and possibly even parking.

Many people have suggested that King be closed only east of Bathurst, and I completely agree. We can use Portland and Brant to help shift car traffic onto Richmond and Adelaide. Here's my proposal for the automobile network: Orange represents through routes, while grey represents local access only.

Overview of King, between Bathurst and Spadina (I got lazy and didn't finish road markings):
Bike lanes are in red. The yellow strips are streetcar platform edges. You'll notice that the streetcar stop at Portland has been eliminated (Brant is only 170m away). The stop spacing is 370m and 280m on either side of the Brant stop.

Distances are not to scale. I tried to keep road widths relatively accurate though.

More detail on King/Brant, looking northeast:

Note that there is a long left turn lane, so that streetcars are not delayed if there is a queue at the King street closure point
The retractable bollard is optional. I don't know if it would work with our freeze-thaw cycles.

 

[the lemur]

The Spadina streetcar uses Charlotte St. for short turns.

Yes, and car traffic there and on Oxley St, which it adjoins, is practically non-existent as it is.

Instituting some sort of transit priority times on King and Queen would have a similar effect to the ROW on Spadina - some side streets would become slightly more difficult to access but not really to the detriment of traffic flow overall.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I would like to see that the city require an additional setback of new buildings, when they are building them. Then the city could widen the roadway to put in a right-of-way, even if for only a city block. Maybe over the decades, the right-of-way can be expanded. Look at King Street West, between Simcoe and John. Why didn't they widen King Street southward to put in a right-of-way?

However, that is only long-term thinking, and the city planners don't seem to consider that. Everything has to be short-term, or until the next election.

 

[BurlOak]

How about having streetcars coming in from the East going up Broadview to Broadview Station. From the West, have the streetcars go up Roncesvalles to Dundas West. Maybe every fourth streetcar could continue along King and Queen. Lets force those coming from the outer reaches to take the Bloor-Danforth subway and save the streetcars for those who live along the downtown portion. This would require less streetcars on this portion and it would improve the operation along the downtown portion.

If you don't like it, then talk to the folks in Scarborough - this is essentially what is being done with the SRT.

 

[spider]

I would like to see that the city require an additional setback of new buildings, when they are building them. Then the city could widen the roadway to put in a right-of-way, even if for only a city block. Maybe over the decades, the right-of-way can be expanded. Look at King Street West, between Simcoe and John. Why didn't they widen King Street southward to put in a right-of-way?

However, that is only long-term thinking, and the city planners don't seem to consider that. Everything has to be short-term, or until the next election.

Requiring a greater set back is a zoning issue. A right-of-way is an expropriation issue. The former costs nothing, the latter costs can be astronomical.

 

[drum118]

Thanks to cars & Traffic

One spot I counted 25 cars with 32 people in them while the streetcars had over 1,000 riders. West View

Streetcars backup because of traffic

East View at the same spot of the west view just after shooting the west

 

[drum118]

Requiring a greater set back is a zoning issue. A right-of-way is an expropriation issue. The former costs nothing, the latter costs can be astronomical.

What good is trying to put in new set backs when new buildings are built considering most are close to 100 years old and cannot be removed.

Unless you tear everything down and start from zero, then you can get your set back.

Then once again, are you building a city for people or cars??

If you are building a city for cars and traffic, then tear the history out the heart of the city considering we already have.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thanks to cars & Traffic

One spot I counted 25 cars with 32 people in them while the streetcars had over 1,000 riders. West View

Streetcars backup because of traffic

East View at the same spot of the west view just after shooting the west

Wow. I always assumed this was caused by mechanical failure, not by simple traffic (I don't ride the King car that often). Makes the situation that much more frustrating. Especially since the solution is so simple and can be implemented at $0.

Do we know when Council is set to vote in the King/Queen ROW?

 

[TOareaFan]

Wow. I always assumed this was caused by mechanical failure, not by simple traffic (I don't ride the King car that often). Makes the situation that much more frustrating. Especially since the solution is so simple and can be implemented at $0.

Do we know when Council is set to vote in the King/Queen ROW?

This was an extreme cases of rush hour congestion caused by a closure of lakeshore Blvd, which pushed vehicular traffic off of lakeshore and on to King....ironically, the accident seems to have been caused by a pedestrian error (starting to cross after the countdown had begun and causing a vehicle to make an evasive - albeit illegal- lane change).......so if we are going to use this extreme example as support for closing king to car traffic we should acknowledge all the facts and we should notice that if this is what happens when one road is asked to carry two road's worth of traffic......this will become the norm.....just on a road that is not called "King"

 

[JWBF]

"No capisce English."

"Don't understand English." That would be the usual excuse.

Personally, there is just much reliance on signs, signs, everywhere signs.

"Don't understand English." is actually "Io non capisco l'inglese"