[Bureaucromancer]

What happened?!? I'm too young to have really understood in the moment what happened during the G20 protests put this is the first im hearing of the cops kidnapping TTC employees. Hardly shocked smh

There were at least two on duty uniformed TTC employees tossed picked arrested for literally no reason. One being a collector the service seemed to think shouldn’t have been in his station after they closed it, and another a streetcar operator who had the door battered open by ETF because he couldn’t teleport his vehicle out of the closed street. There never was any kind of real explanation aside from the chiefs bullshit press conference, but I suspect they were included the final settlement for most arrestees that only came through about a year ago.

Frankly I think ATU should walk out over this stuff.

 

[DSC]

There were at least two on duty uniformed TTC employees tossed picked arrested for literally no reason. One being a collector the service seemed to think shouldn’t have been in his station after they closed it, and another a streetcar operator who had the door battered open by ETF because he couldn’t teleport his vehicle out of the closed street. There never was any kind of real explanation aside from the chiefs bullshit press conference, but I suspect they were included the final settlement for most arrestees that only came through about a year ago.

Frankly I think ATU should walk out over this stuff.

Why are we talking about G20? Also, if the ATU wants to protest police stupidity, a walk out will only inconvenience the customers.

 

[nfitz]

What happened?!? I'm too young to have really understood in the moment what happened during the G20 protests put this is the first im hearing of the cops kidnapping TTC employees. Hardly shocked smh

During the Friday evening of 2010 G20 in Toronto, TPS Superintendent Mark Fenton had police kettle protestors around the Novotel hotel near Esplanade and Front - outside of the the fenced security perimeter. Hundreds were arrested, included media. Then on the Sunday late-afternoon, despite being relatively peaceful that day, he kettled the crowd at Spadina and Queen (a long way from the barricades). This caught up a lot of people who were just in the area, during a thunderstorm and torrential downpour. And it included a TTC employee who was just walking through to or from work. (I'm not sure why there'd be a streetcar operator there - streetcars were cancelled between Coxwell at least Dufferin - perhaps it was one they hadn't been able to retrieve?)

Fenton was finally charged with unlawful arrest and discreditable conduct in 2014, and was found guilty in 2016, with the harsh penalty of 30 days of lost vacation. In his 2017 appeal, the penalty was increased to 60 days. Basically he fell on his sword to protect Police Chief, and now the Liberal Minister of National Defence Bill Blair.

By the time the G20 was over, there had been over 1100 arrests. More than double the number of people who were arrested during the imposition of martial law in the 1970 October Crisis (many of which were in British Columbia - needless to say the RCMP was out of control out there).

 

[Bureaucromancer]

During the Friday evening of 2010 G20 in Toronto, TPS Superintendent Mark Fenton had police kettle protestors around the Novotel hotel near Esplanade and Front - outside of the the fenced security perimeter. Hundreds were arrested, included media. Then on the Sunday late-afternoon, despite being relatively peaceful that day, he kettled the crowd at Spadina and Queen (a long way from the barricades). This caught up a lot of people who were just in the area, during a thunderstorm and torrential downpour. And it included a TTC employee who was just walking through to or from work. (I'm not sure why there'd be a streetcar operator there - streetcars were cancelled between Coxwell at least Dufferin - perhaps it was one they hadn't been able to retrieve?)

Fenton was finally charged with unlawful arrest and discreditable conduct in 2014, and was found guilty in 2016, with the harsh penalty of 30 days of lost vacation. In his 2017 appeal, the penalty was increased to 60 days. Basically he fell on his sword to protect Police Chief, and now the Liberal Minister of National Defence Bill Blair.

By the time the G20 was over, there had been over 1100 arrests. More than double the number of people who were arrested during the imposition of martial law in the 1970 October Crisis (many of which were in British Columbia - needless to say the RCMP was out of control out there).

I brought up the g20 in reference to a vague recollection that TTC management told their people who got arrested during G20 that it was their problem despite having literally been arrested for doing their jobs.

And the two I was talking about were separate from the off duty guy who got caught up in the Queen Spadina debacle. I think that it was on the Saturday, but could be misremembering the day.

 

[nfitz]

I brought up the g20 in reference to a vague recollection that TTC management told their people who got arrested during G20 that it was their problem despite having literally been arrested for doing their jobs.

And the two I was talking about were separate from the off duty guy who got caught up in the Queen Spadina debacle. I think that it was on the Saturday, but could be misremembering the day.

The streetcar thing would have made sense on the Saturday, where there was legitimate fear that streetcars would be going up in pyres of flames like the police cars were.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The streetcar thing would have made sense on the Saturday, where there was legitimate fear that streetcars would be going up in pyres of flames like the police cars were.

I'd love to know the leap of cop-brain that says throwing a streetcar operator into a holding pen thrown together in a film studio warehouse somehow 'makes sense' on the basis of a purported threat to the safety of the streetcar.

Frankly the absolute best one sentence summary of the G20 was the absolute bastard of a JP on the Monday following most of the arrests who sent a number detainees back to detention until the next morning because at 5 pm he just HAD to have his dinner despite having A: scheduled their first appearance and B: spent the better part of the day releasing detainees who the Crown couldn't even articulate a reason for having arrested. These people literally spent 16+ additional hours in jail because this... *redacted* couldn't be arsed to stay late at work to sign the paperwork admitting they shouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

A settlement ten years later doesn't even begin to excuse what the bastards did that weekend.

 

[T3G]

Also, if the ATU wants to protest police stupidity, a walk out will only inconvenience the customers.

Work to rule. Have TTC operators call in every single time their way on a green light, or their access to a stop, is in any way impeded.

Perhaps after enough of those calls, public appetite for firing all these bozos and starting again would grow.

 

[nfitz]

A settlement ten years later doesn't even begin to excuse what the bastards did that weekend.

I agree. When I say "makes more sense", I mean in the terms of the timing of the incident. Not the appropriateness of the incident. Interesting the worse abuses happened on the Friday and Sunday; rather on the Saturday, where from a good vantage point, you could see pillars of the smoke of burning police cars rising from the downtown area; that was a bit surreal.

 

[evandyk]

This one was eventually lit on fire:

The concert on the Sunday was Taj Mahal. I was there and luckily missed the kettling by a few minutes.

 

[Mount Dennis Resident]

Witnesses to traffic infractions on the King Street so-called transit priority, should photograph the offenders, and post to social media AND this thread. With a CC to Mayor Chow and TTC Chair Councillor Jamaal Myers.

 

[Obsidian]

 

[afransen]

At least part of the problem is the baffling signage and signals. There should be an alternating green/red right arrrow, a red forward arrow (always red), a bar-style transit signal for streetcars etc to proceed straight. And absolutely zero straight movements for non-transit or emergency vehicles. Taxis, etc. all have to turn right. You can supplement the red forward arrow with a "right turn only, transit vehicles excepted' sign.

This will be intelligible to drivers. I'm not sure automated enforcement is fully fair when we are not setting drivers up for success in compliance. It's a bit too easy to follow streetcars through the intersection.

Maybe some of this can be addressed when the 'pilot' is made permanent with street upgrades one of these decades, but clearly we can't wait a decade to improve things.

 

[nfitz]

At least part of the problem is the baffling signage and signals. There should be an alternating green/red right arrrow, a red forward arrow (always red), a bar-style transit signal for streetcars etc to proceed straight. And absolutely zero straight movements for non-transit or emergency vehicles. Taxis, etc. all have to turn right. You can supplement the red forward arrow with a "right turn only, transit vehicles excepted' sign.

This will be intelligible to drivers. I'm not sure automated enforcement is fully fair when we are not setting drivers up for success in compliance. It's a bit too easy to follow streetcars through the intersection.

Maybe some of this can be addressed when the 'pilot' is made permanent with street upgrades one of these decades, but clearly we can't wait a decade to improve things.

The signage could be improved, but it's clear down there that the vast majority of offending are simply choosing to break the law.

 

[reaperexpress]

At least part of the problem is the baffling signage and signals. There should be an alternating green/red right arrrow, a red forward arrow (always red), a bar-style transit signal for streetcars etc to proceed straight. And absolutely zero straight movements for non-transit or emergency vehicles. Taxis, etc. all have to turn right. You can supplement the red forward arrow with a "right turn only, transit vehicles excepted' sign.

This will be intelligible to drivers. I'm not sure automated enforcement is fully fair when we are not setting drivers up for success in compliance. It's a bit too easy to follow streetcars through the intersection.

Maybe some of this can be addressed when the 'pilot' is made permanent with street upgrades one of these decades, but clearly we can't wait a decade to improve things.

Green turn arrows indicate a protected movement, so they prevent pedestrians along King Street from receiving a Walk signal.

Red arrows are forbidden under Regulation 626 of the Highway Traffic Act.

White vertical bars in Toronto indicate a protected left and/or right turn movement. Streetcar operators are not allowed to travel straight during a white bar indication.

Somewhere back in this thread I made some diagrams of signal display options which would improve compliance while actually being legal in Toronto.

 

[Jonny5]

I noticed the much ballyhooed Traffic Wardens finally appeared this week on King to stop box blocking, at least in the afternoon.
King has slowed, but importantly I still find it has more consistent travel times (excluding that nasty week+ of the Church diversion). The old days of "will my commute take 15 minutes or 35 minutes?" are still gone.