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alexsheneal

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So, according to CP24 that annoying David Lepofsky character has won another ruling. All TTC drivers must now call out the names of all stops, on all routes.

Am I the only one who thinks this is ridiculous?? If a visually impaired person would like to have stops called out, why can't they just ASK the bus driver when they board the bus?? Why force everyone in the entire city to be subjected to constant noise just for that tiny chance there might be a blind person onboard a bus.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against blind people. But I do have a problem with self-righteous idiots like David Lepofsky who keep wasting tax payers' dollars fighting for their causes rather than simply adapting to a system that already works. (Seriously, is it that hard to say "Can you please announce stops?" when you board a bus??)

Alex
 
I'm not blind, but I'm glad that drivers must now call all stops. There are many times when I'm on a bus or streetcar and have no idea where to get off. The first time I rode a streetcar by myself, I didn't even know where Yonge St. was.
 
It can be convenient at night when one is going to a part of town not often frequented.
 
didn't they call out the stops back in the early days?
 
The policy was that major streets would be called, any other upon request. This is reasonable.

It's stupid because of all the mid-block stops. Is the driver supposed to memorize the street addresses where there is no intersection?

I'm not a fan of Lepofsky even though I support the general idea of called stops and stations. With subway annoucments, the result is terrible (too wordy, unpleasant and loud), even though the requirement for such is positive.

Most other systems don't bother calling out any stops.
 
Many routes have tons of 'address only' stops, and every route has stops in which the cross-street to the north has a different name or does not align with the cross-street to the south...which gets called? Both?
 
The policy was that major streets would be called, any other upon request. This is reasonable.

It's stupid because of all the mid-block stops. Is the driver supposed to memorize the street addresses where there is no intersection?

I'm not a fan of Lepofsky even though I support the general idea of called stops and stations. With subway annoucments, the result is terrible (too wordy, unpleasant and loud), even though the requirement for such is positive.

Most other systems don't bother calling out any stops.
when i was on the subway in new york, they called out all the stops on all the old trains like they do on the bloor line. the new trains however had automated messages that were much longer and wordier than ours. i think they even had 2 voices, one annoucing the stops and one for the "mind the closing doors".
 
Bus stops here for TTC

Drivers on surface routes must call out every stop after blind lawyer wins second human rights ruling
Jul 27, 2007 04:30 AM
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter

Two years after the TTC was ordered to announce all stops on its subways, the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal has given the transit system a month to do the same on buses and streetcars.

The tribunal ruled yesterday that the TTC violated the rights of blind lawyer David Lepofsky by failing to call all stops on surface routes. It was given 15 days to come up with a plan to train drivers and enforce the new policy.

Two years ago, following a 10-year fight by Lepofsky, the same adjudicator, Justice Alvin Rosenberg, ruled TTC personnel had to call each subway stop until an automated announcement system could be installed.

Yesterday Lepofsky said it was outrageous it's taken the TTC so long to expand the policy above ground. "This case was so obviously a loser that they should not have fought it," he said.

"I hope, given our city's budget problems, the TTC won't spend any more of the taxpayers' dollars fighting this or appealing, and that they put their effort instead into properly serving TTC patrons with disabilities like mine," he added.

During five days of hearings, the tribunal was told blind TTC riders can't relax for fear the driver will forget to call their stop.

They're taught to sit at the front and ensure that signs of their disability, such as a white cane, are obvious so the drivers won't forget about them.

The TTC argued its policy of calling only requested stops, major intersections and subway stations was adequate for blind and disabled patrons – and that between 1995 and 2006 it received only four complaints about missed stops by visually impaired riders.

Being required to call all stops would present a hardship and potential safety risk when drivers are navigating busy routes, argued the TTC lawyer.

But the tribunal heard that drivers are already under orders to call all stops when their transit vehicle is extremely crowded or bad weather makes it difficult for everyone to see out the windows.

"By giving these instructions it is clear that the TTC is prepared to accommodate sighted people who have some difficulties" but not blind people with "severe difficulties," wrote Rosenberg.

The TTC will not appeal the decision, said commission chair Adam Giambrone, who put the legal costs to fight the second Lepofsky case at between $100,000 and $200,000.

"By the end of the year, regardless of the decision, we would have been fully compliant" with automated station stop announcements, he said.

The TTC installed an automated system on subway trains soon after the first decision and is implementing the $6.6 million project on all surface routes.

In the meantime, the TTC will train drivers to announce all stops, Giambrone said.

"Many of these routes have over 100 different stops. Bus and streetcar drivers can change routes daily and it's a big challenge. You can appreciate the challenges of people asking directions, checking fares and driving on Toronto streets."

Until Lepofsky won the subway case, the TTC didn't enforce the call-out procedure, said Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113 president Bob Kinnear.

"There's always been a requirement for operators to call out all major intersections and subway stops. That never changed, the enforcement of it changed," he said.

-----

Six complaints in 12 years on this issue? That's really not bad.

The problem here is that it is much harder to call out all stops with the midblocks and the minor intersections with different names on each side.

Drivers are a bti inconsistant about stop calling - most do the required major streets (some don't, but this is rare), and a few call out each street - they seem to more likely be streetcar drivers. Though unlike the automated announcements, the drivers' announcements are often more useful - the operator of the Queen Car will often call out the subway station as well as "Yonge Street" as well as the main landmarks (City Hall, St. Mike's) and even connecting routes.

That said, I do not mind at all the automated stop annoucements that are coming - they are short and direct compared to the subway annoucements - they never bothered me on the 11 Bayview.
 
Sometimes asking the driver doesn't work. I had a friend who was new to the city coming to meet me at Bay and Wellesley, so I told her to just take the Wellesley bus westbound to Bay. She asked the driver to please announce Bay, and he simply glared at her. He seemed to be announcing every stop, so she waited for Bay. It was only when she reached Ossington that she realized that he had called out every single stop except Bay.

On the other hand, there's a marvellous driver who sings out all the stops on the King car.
 
Calling out major streets is reasonable. Calling every stop, especially on longer routes, is unreasonable. It will distract the driver, who I would prefer to be focused on his driving.

I'm fully supportive of rights for the disabled, but disabled persons surely can take some responsibility for themselves, in terms of knowing where their stop is, or making a special request when boarding. This seems like overkill.
 
I think a fair compromise would be to enforce the existing guidelines until the automated stop system is rolled out. When that happens, at least driver distraction and drivers being dicks will be a moot point.
 
David Lepofsky is a great lawyer and advocate for the equal rights of all citizens. It requires very little effort for a bus driver to say the name of the street where the stop is. The TTC was foolish and wasteful in dragging out litigation to force them to do this when there was no doubt in the mind of anyone who has read the Human Rights Code that they would be required to do so.
 

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