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What do you think we should do with our legacy streetcar network?

  • Do Nothing. I like the status quo.

    Votes: 13 14.6%

  • Dismantle it. I hate streetcars.

    Votes: 3 3.4%

  • Implement signal priority. It might help the streetcars move faster.

    Votes: 51 57.3%

  • Make all streetcar lines their own ROW and implement signal priority. Then they'll really move.

    Votes: 34 38.2%

  • Other. I'll explain later.

    Votes: 8 9.0%
  • Total voters
    89
There are a lot of good ideas people have mentioned that I forgot (e.g. POP and all-door loading, fixed stops, eliminating stops). What can we do to encourage the TTC to take these steps?
 
POP is already a given with the new streetcars, I believe, and with it comes all-door loading. I think fixed stops would actually slow things down unless you eliminated a bunch of stops. The problem with THAT, unfortunately, is that neighbourhoods scream bloody murder if you even think of trying it.
 
GraphicMatt said:
POP is already a given with the new streetcars, I believe, and with it comes all-door loading. I think fixed stops would actually slow things down unless you eliminated a bunch of stops. The problem with THAT, unfortunately, is that neighbourhoods scream bloody murder if you even think of trying it.
Click to expand...

But with POP it probably makes sense to increase the amount of riders boarding at each stop, so I think fixed stops and fewer stops is a good idea. I don't see the point of POP if you still have stops 200m apart and only a few riders getting on/off at many stops. POP is best where there are lots of people getting on/off at each stop. I think with 500m stop spacing, no one would complain, especially if the streetcar service is significantly faster and more reliable to make up for the increased walking distance.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Still, though, why bother stopping if no passengers have indicated they want to get off and no one is waiting to board?
Click to expand...

Why do almost all higher order transit systems have fixed stops?

Extremely busy transit lines will almost never skip stops anyway. And when you start putting the high capacity vehicles on them (e.g. the upcoming streetcars), they'll be even less likely to skip stops. The streetcar lines have high ridership, and with reduced stops and reduced frequency, I don't see why fixed stops would such a big issue. If even extremely busy and dense downtown corridors like Queen and King can't support fixed stop service, that means that nowhere else in the GTA can support it either. That means the planned LRTs along even worse corridors like Eglinton, Sheppard, Hurontario, etc. are all waste of money...
 
What do you mean by fixed stops? Don't the existing lines have fixed stops?
 
I get what you're saying, but it sure would suck to take the 501 at 2 a.m. and have the driver stop and open the doors even when there's no one waiting to board/exit.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Still, though, why bother stopping if no passengers have indicated they want to get off and no one is waiting to board?
Click to expand...

My pet peeve of people exiting through the front doors could be better remedied if people exited the door nearest them.

However, most new streetcars/trams have a button on the outside as well to activate the door so it will open. How long will the learning curve be for people to learn that. Maybe it would have to depend on what style button they may use.

push-here.jpg


OR

push-here-edited.png
 
King Street and Queen Street

King Street and Queen street should be one ways from
Roncesvalles Avenue to Bayview Avenue

Put the streetcar in their own ROW
 
Lots of great ideas here. I'd like to see the legacy network expanded, even in mixed traffic. There are some really obvious gaps that could easily be filled. I was on Parliament Street a few weeks ago and saw that there were laying down fresh tracks and couldn't help but wonder why on earth they wouldn't spend a bit more to extend the existing tracks that short distance up to Castle Frank station. You'd instantly have a whole new line for little effort and cost. You could also take it south of King to the Distillery, and once the East Bayfront is developed, down to Queens Quay. Another obvious one would be Coxwell, which already has un-connected tracks in places.

Some others: Victoria Park south to Queen, Sherbourne from Bloor to Lakeshore, Church from Bloor to Front, Bay from Bloor to Lakeshore (and maybe north of Bloor along Davenport), Ossington from Bloor to Adelaide (perhaps north to St. Clair via Oakwood as well), Dufferin from Bloor to Lakeshore, Dundas from Bloor north through the Junction and all the way to Kipling station in the west), Front from Parliament to Dufferin, Adelaide and/or Richmond for their entire lengths, and Gerrard from Parliament to University.

Note that these are all in mixed traffic, not ROW's, since the streets I mentioned are too narrow, and tunneling would be too costly. There are many more streets where I would put them in their own ROW.
 
Last edited:
King Street and Queen Street

King Street and Queen street should be one ways from
Roncesvalles Avenue to Bayview Avenue

Put the streetcar in their own ROW
Click to expand...

The obvious solution for both transit riders and others.
 
Ansem said:
King Street and Queen Street

King Street and Queen street should be one ways from
Roncesvalles Avenue to Bayview Avenue

Put the streetcar in their own ROW
Click to expand...

While I think from roncy to bayview would be a bit much, I think from Bathurst to Bayview would be excellent. As well, maybe put a single track ROW on each of the four streets (Queen, Richmond, Adeleide, King). Bathurst is wide enough south of Queen for a ROW to distribute streetcars and traffic to the four streets, and I think car traffic flow would actually be improved by this as well.
 
Ansem said:
King Street and Queen Street

King Street and Queen street should be one ways from
Roncesvalles Avenue to Bayview Avenue

Put the streetcar in their own ROW
Click to expand...

Cost aside, that's an interesting idea. Streetcars don't even need to have their own lane since cars will be able to pass to the right. This will help both cars and public transit. You might want to write to Ford about it.
 
If you converted King and Queen to one-way operation, wouldn't the streetcar ROW need to be rebuilt to run along the side of the road?

Personally, I'm a fan of super-high signal priority on the queen streetcar with almost all left turns restricted on queen. I would also add Bathurst and Parliament as additional north-south streetcars.

Click the map for more detail
 
Last edited:
Ansem said:
King Street and Queen Street King Street and Queen street should be one ways from
Roncesvalles Avenue to Bayview Avenue Put the streetcar in their own ROW
Click to expand...

Several problems here:
1. King and Queen are pretty separate for most of this stretch - TTC riders want convenient transit going BOTH ways.
2. King and Queen are really far too narrow for ROWs (or RsOW)
3. The trackage on both streets has been rebuilt very recently so moving it is an unnecessary expense.

On might argue that an express service on both Adelaide and Richmond (both are one way) from Spadina to Church could help, though the track on Richmond would need to be put back between Spadina and York. The TTC is planning to redo the existing tracks on both streets in next 2 years.
 
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