[golfer727272]

Presently renting a 2nd floor condo unit on a month to month scenario after 18 month lease.
On May 5 came home to discover the building drain stack we are on had backed up building sewage through the kitchen sink.

No damage to our contents but the engineered hardwood was ruined as well as the base cabinet units.

I have contents insurance and after adjustor deemed unit not liveable, we moved our contents into temp storage and
found alternative short term accomodation.

3 weeks later we have been able to return. Expenses for loss of Use will total about 12K. I have 1K deductable.

Property management and the condo board are not taking responsibility..although immediately after the flood a back up valve was added on the kitchen sink line.

Insurance wants to make them liable.

My landlord is refusing to get involved saying its between our insurance company and the property management folks.

Questions

Can I withold rent for the 3 weeks I didnt live in the unit?

 

[marsh]

You need to talk to lawyer - but I'm pretty sure you simply can't withhold rent from your landlord. If you've been a good tenant and since you've been there 18 months you might try approaching your landlord on that basis to see if you can't work something out. Anyways best to talk to a lawyer - sorry to hear about your situation.

 

[rbt]

Can I withold rent for the 3 weeks I didnt live in the unit?

I am not a lawyer but my tenant insurance, when I was a tenant, covered living expenses if I was displaced. Depending on your policy, you might be able to claim that 3 week rent cost from your insurance company and let them figure out who to pass that expense along to (condo board, landlord, or other).

 

[James]

From RBC Insurance's website (http://www.rbcinsurance.com/homeinsurance/tenant-insurance.html):

How tenant insurance protects you
While your landlord most likely has property insurance on the actual building in which you live, your landlord's policy does not provide financial protection for your personal belongings, upgrades you have made to the home/unit, or your own personal liability to others. Below is an overview of how tenant insurance protects you and tips to keep in mind when considering your coverage options.

It should cover:

1. Your personal belongings
2. Upgrades to your rental
3. Additional living expenses
4. Accidental damage or injury to others

Under additional living expenses:

Compensation for additional living expenses
If you cannot live in your rental while repairs are being made after an insured loss, your tenant insurance will also help to cover some of your additional living expenses, such as moving costs, a hotel room, restaurant meals, storage and more.

There are three circumstances that may entitle you to this coverage:

• If your unit is considered unfit to live in due to an insured peril and you have to move out while the damage is being repaired, your plan will cover necessary and reasonable additional living expenses.
• If you are denied access to your unit by the police, fire department or other civil authority because of damage to a neighbouring premises, your plan will cover a necessary and reasonable increase in living expenses for up to two weeks.
• If you sub-let part of your rental home or unit to another tenant and he or she is forced to leave because of an insured loss, your plan will reimburse your full rental value while the repairs are being made.

 

[golfer727272]

Thanks for the input....Yes Insurance will cover most of the cost of living elsewhere, but I have 1000 deductible.
I dont see why I should have to be responsible for anything, when it is obviously a building problem. I was thinking witholding a portion of the rent would make me good for the $1000 out of pocket.

Also could I place a lean on the unit, when the owner tries to sell when we move out in the fall?

 

[James]

I would advise against withholding rent as this is a tenant insurance claim, not a landlord-tenant issue. The landlord can (and should) file a notice to terminate tenancy early for non-payment of rent. Link for reference: http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Key_Information/STEL02_111884.html, section titled "Withholding Rent":

Withholding rent

A tenant should not withhold any part of the rent, even if the tenant feels that maintenance is poor or a necessary repair has not been done. A tenant could be evicted, if they withhold rent without getting approval from the Board.

 

[interested]

Thanks for the input....Yes Insurance will cover most of the cost of living elsewhere, but I have 1000 deductible.
I dont see why I should have to be responsible for anything, when it is obviously a building problem. I was thinking witholding a portion of the rent would make me good for the $1000 out of pocket.

Also could I place a lean on the unit, when the owner tries to sell when we move out in the fall?

I think if you do this as James says, you will be in breach of the lease.
As far as the $1000 deductible, if your insurance pursues the condo corporation, it should if successful be reimbursed fully and should in turn return to you the $1000 deductible. I would speak to your insurer and ask them if this is the case.

Note, the whole issue with deductibles is you are responsible to pay them. Whether or not you can get or the insurance can get full recovery from the building is the issue but you still are obliged I would think to pay the insurance $1000 deductible at least initially.

Finally, you could theoretically sue in small claims court for your $1000 deductible by naming the building/landlord but my suspicion is it will be difficult to prove unless the building accepts responsibility for the back up. I fail to see how you figure the landlord would be responsible however for your deductible unless you could show that the damage occurred due to landlord negligence.

As others have said, I think you need the opinion of a lawyer which probably will cost more than the $1000.

If you have been a good tenant and you are paying fair market rent perhaps your landlord might be willing to share the deductible with you to maintain the relationship though he is not responsible as far as I can see.

 

[golfer727272]

Thanks for all of the good comments. Is it fair that a landlord should continue to collect rent, when the property they are renting me cant be lived in?

 

[rbt]

Thanks for all of the good comments. Is it fair that a landlord should continue to collect rent, when the property they are renting me cant be lived in?

It doesn't sound like the problem occurred through the fault of the land lord. I would expect they would receive that income through some means but you can argue that the condo corporation should be covering it.

Incidentally, when your house burns down you typically don't get to stop making mortgage, property tax payments, or even utility bill payments. Insurance will cover unexpected new expenses (hotel, replacing stuff, rebuilding the house, etc.) but payments you were expecting still need to be covered by you.

 

[interested]

^^^
The other question perhaps should be: Is it reasonable that insurance should pay for you to stay somewhere else and you pocket your rent when you were expecting to pay the rent?
It is complicated. Landlord's expenses continue. You carry insurance for a purpose to cover for eventualities. The landlord also has insurance to cover damage on the place but probably lost rent as well.
So I would think it is reasonable for you to state to your landlord that you have not been provided with a habitable place and because of that you are not paying rent. Again, I am sure someone's insurance should make that up, probably the landlord's.

I wonder if there is a lawyer or realtor with knowledge in this or someone who has "been there" who can shed more light.

 

[golfer727272]

I agree pocketing and "gaining" is not right....I would think my insurance company should gain the rent as an offset to the costs of renting another temporary spot. You are right...many moving aprts

 

[blahblahblah]

An accident happened through no fault of anyone's. The landlord likely feels badly about the situation and wants to make sure you pay your rent on time for the balance of your stay. And he/she wants you to leave the place in decent shape. If you have a decent relationship I would say he should split the $1000 with you. Is the $1000 a real cost though. The $12,000 for 3 weeks seems high for 3 weeks of living elsewhere, storage and 2 moves. You can't charge for your time. You can forget about all the law. It is just about how you can negotiate your way through. (without threatening a lien-no leverage there). I would give him an honest, receipt based, verifiable accounting and ask him to split it. If he says no, at least you have tried. Then get on with your life.