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Baghai747

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I've been studying the housing market in Toronto and in the GTA. An area that has caught my attention is the Markham's new Legacy and BoxGrove Communities. Right on the Rouge River. Legacy has a golf course right in the community and it is just south of the 407 (on 9th Line). It is also promoted as a community that only has single detached homes. The BoxGrove Community is not developed yet but plans have schools, a business park and walking and bike trails. Builders in Boxgrove are working together to develop a complete community while trying to keep the hertiage and environment in mind.

The town of Markham is growing at a fast rate. What do you guys think of Markham's its growth and the development of family communities like Legacy and BoxGrove?
 
These bedroom communities are going to be a transportation nightmare. And I will chain myself to a tree if they try to force a highway down my beautiful Morningside Avenue!
 
Boxgrove: Suburbs were once named after tree stands or other natural features that once graced the landscape they displaced. Boxgrove sits on what was once an ancient old growth big box centre.
 
Are they planning a new highway in that area? if so, what is being proposed?
 
There were once plans to put a highway going down to the 401 along Morningside and 9th line. I don't know if it is still possible, given recent subdivision construction between Finch and Steeles -- but every now and then I hear a rumor that worries me.
 
The town of Markham is growing at a fast rate. What do you guys think of Markham's its growth and the development of family communities like Legacy and BoxGrove?

Family friendly in a, can't go anywhere without a driving chaperone kind of way. Good for overprotective parents trying to shield their children from independence and diversity.

Markham is unfortunately the best 905 example of a community which is trying (but failing miserably) at trying to build sustainable whole communities. I don't really buy into the segregated ideas that some communities are for families while some are for empty nesters and others are for wealthy young trend setters, etc. However the marketing departments and government will do well if they can force you to make multiple moves throughout your life from one home-ownership opportunity to the next following your evolving lifestyle and age. Creating whole neighbourhoods might be more interesting and sustainable but less profitable for developers (unlike blockbusting).

On the other hand you would probably get a slightly less cynical answer from the Toronto Homebuilders Association or your local real estate agent. :)
 
I think that what separates Markham from the rest of the 905 area except maybe Mississauga is the development of its flagship areas. Markham Centre will not contain the skyscrapers that other nodes throughout the GTA have, however it will be brilliantly planned. Similarly, the Beaver Creek area has a very good mix of all land uses in close proximity to each other. As for new subdivisions on the edge of the city including Cornell, they are more typical of the rest of the GTA. Even Toronto hasn't mastered subdivision planning yet based on the garbage sprawl going up in the Rouge River area.
 
Segrated communities are also found in the Toronto core not just in Markham or any other GTA area. Pick up any New Homes/Condos magazine and you'll see developer's promoting projects for families, empty nestors and for young trend setters from North York to King Street West...it's all about marketing either in suburbia or the downtown core.

I don't get the argument that parents who raise their kids in the suburbs "shield their children from independence and diversity". I think its merely parenting style not the location of your house.

I think Markham is doing a good job in catering to different lifestyles. In a few years Markham will be a vibrant city just above Toronto.
 
What part of Markham is going to be "vibrant"? The Legacy and Boxgrove subdivisions are never going to approach the vibrancy of anything like the Annex, because there is no main street.

The most vibrant part of Markham is, of course, along Main Street in Unionville, or maybe the other Main Street (Hwy 48) . Any area of Markham built in the past 30 years has nothing similar.
 
On the contrary, vibrancy IS important to solid planning - especially the social aspects, since that has implications with regards to community networks, etc.

Planning isn't just a science, you know.

AoD
 
Vibrant is not a very useful word in my opinion. Even if an area is well planned with a mix of land uses, good pedestrian and transit access, and minimum commute times, it still may not be vibrant. At the same time, Main Street Markham is vibrant, but no one actually lives there so it does nothing to reduce the problems of land use segregation and auto based transportation.

Solid planning and "vibrancy" don't go hand in hand. Even if Markham will never be vibrant, it will still have succeeded if it controls the planning side of things. What's vibrancy anyways? It's completely subjective. I live near the downtown stretch of College, but since Queen St. and Yonge are so close, my stretch of College seems dead and not very vibrant at all by comparison. But compared to Markham it sure is.
 
I would never compare the "vibrancy" of Yonge Street downtown Toronto to areas in Markham. However, vibrancy can be a product of good community planning. Markham is putting a good effort in creating this plan with projects such as Cornell, and the biggest one, Downtown Markham. It will take time. And as time goes by and Toronto becomes to overpoulated than people will be turning to places like Vaughan, Richmond Hill, and Markham as possible places to live.

Remember when North York Willowdale was considered the suburbs? :b
 
"Remember when North York Willowdale was considered the suburbs?"

It still is, really. Go two blocks east or west of Yonge and you're surrounded by bungalows...the McMansions reveal the area's true age, though.

One thing that I think Markham has benefited from is its very fragmented development - it's definitely not a single cookie cutter subdivision repeated over the entire municipality. You have Thornhill, Unionville, Markham/Cornell, the Denison area that's identical to Scarborough, etc. Contemporary Markham has maybe had to work a little harder to combine these distinct neighbourhoods into one city, and, fortunately, they've had a ton of infill land to work with. Some of the newest sprawl is kind of same-y all over, but much of it at least seems compact enough that it should support bus routes which will in turn support Viva. I'm looking forward to downtown Markham/Markham Centre.

But that Legacy area is still the middle of nowhere...the worst place to live in Markham, save possibly the outer parts of Cornell or some stretches way north of 16th (but all these areas are under construction so I might be proven wrong).
 
In Toronto "vibrancy" is dodging panhandlers and street people when visiting the local convenience store.
 
You should live in the burbs then, the only thing you'd be dodging is traffic across a 6 lane arterial road. :rolleyes

AoD
 
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