[Admiral Beez]

One, Toronto is not a private company, and two, residents of Toronto are not customers.

We may not be customers, but I certainly consider the relationship between city hall and the citizens to be transactional. I give you money, I expect services in return. The reason we're not customers is that the gov't is owned by and works for us. We are not a customer of Tory, but his employer. It's still a transactional relationship though.

 

[JWBF]

I beg to differ. In order for me to pay my bills on time and pay off my debt, I have had to curtail my usual free-spending ways to the point where I've stopped drinking alcohol, eat out only twice a month, and switched to travel by TTC rather than GO, among other things. I had to curtail spending, not try and find a higher-paying job (for which I would have to go back for years of school).
While the semantic game around the term "efficiencies" rather bothers me (like, wtf does "efficiencies" even mean?), I very much disagree with the idea of having to find increases in revenue *IF* unnecessary spending has not been curtailed.
Obviously, cutting services is not the curtailment of unnecessary spending--rather it's the curtailment of necessary spending--but knowing bureaucracy, I'm sure there's more than enough that can be sorted out for at least some savings. Sort out the waste and then ask me to chip in even more (which I will gladly do, as I gladly do now)....or at least be in the process of sorting out the waste whilst asking me to chip in more. You know, a show of good faith.

We are talking about Toronto.

 

[JWBF]

We may not be customers, but I certainly consider the relationship between city hall and the citizens to be transactional. I give you money, I expect services in return. The reason we're not customers is that the gov't is owned by and works for us. We are not a customer of Tory, but his employer. It's still a transactional relationship though.

Agreed. "Transitional Relationship" describes things nicely.

 

[JWBF]

Well I see that Tory shared a taxi in Ottawa today on his way to meet the federal leaders--I hope the tip for the driver did not come at the expense of the taxpayer (a toonie is better in my pocket, after all).

Do you have something against the survival of the small business person?

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Anyone who goes on about how private business is a model of efficiency because the suits know how to turn down a thermostat must have been in a coma in 2008. And not now paying attention to how our capitalist betters are probably at this moment ramping up some disastrous excess.

I'm a cheap bastard. There are always ways that a buck can be trimmed ($7 haircuts in Chinatown!). But I wish governments would first look for efficiencies as a way of delivering more and better service to the public rather than whittling away the public sphere until it's failing to serve us at all.

This is all just a straw man argument; the thermostat comment was brought up by someone earlier in the thread who was opposed to the concept of efficiency. What exactly has been whittled down when it comes to municipal government in Toronto? You are criticizing the Ford mantra "doing less with less" while we are doing about the Tory vision of "doing more (or the same) with less".

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...10000-on-12-electrical-outlets-is-ridiculous/

Here's a textbook example of what goes on at city hall - a dysfunctional bureaucracy, tradespeople who know the government is an easy mark, and too many councillors who don't care about the bottom line. The only people that lose are the residents who don't get the level of services they should for the amount of taxes paid.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...10000-on-12-electrical-outlets-is-ridiculous/

Here's a textbook example of what goes on at city hall - a dysfunctional bureaucracy, tradespeople who know the government is an easy mark, and too many councillors who don't care about the bottom line. The only people that lose are the residents who don't get the level of services they should for the amount of taxes paid.

I think the only issue is the price tag, not the act of adding the outlets. The rational course of action is to question how the budgeted cost is so high for something that is relatively simple. As to the level of services - given the amount of residential property tax an average household pays, I have a feeling they are expecting way too much from too little a pot (just look at transit as the case study) - and of course, there is a certain irony to those paying the lowest amounts complaining the loudest about not getting gold plated services.

Beyond should the organizational focus really be on putting off 10K here, 5K there (worse, nickle and diming and delaying spending for something that will ultimately cost far, far more) while the efficacy of policies costing billions in the long run remains untackled? I fear the love of optics got politicos to chase for the lowest hanging fruit that is ultimately meaningless. Just look at the police budget, for crying out loud.

AoD

 

[Videodrome]

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/18/someone-tell-tory-he-won-fords-lost

Wow, a Sun editorial that makes sense! I agree that Tory has nothing to prove since he won the election.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/18/someone-tell-tory-he-won-fords-lost

Wow, a Sun editorial that makes sense! I agree that Tory has nothing to prove since he won the election.

I refuse to click on Sun links and play a part in their BS.

AoD

 

[Videodrome]

I refuse to click on Sun links and play a part in their BS.

AoD

Here’s some free advice for Mayor John Tory: You’ve got the gig, so relax.

Building support with the federal opposition parties for his SmartTrack election promise, as he’s doing in Ottawa this week, is what Tory should be doing as Toronto’s mayor.

What he shouldn’t be doing is what he did last week.

That was getting into a public slanging match with Coun. Rob Ford over Ford’s claim he would have beaten Tory if he’d been on the ballot in last year’s municipal election for mayor, instead of for Etobicoke North councillor.

Tory should have laughed that claim off, instead of doing what Ford wanted him to do, which was to overreact.

Or, as Tory put it of Ford’s claim: “It might well be argued by people like that that if the Toronto Maple Leafs had had a few extra players and one minute per game for the last five years in every one of their games, they might have won five Stanley Cups in the last 10 years.”

Um, who cares? By doing that, Tory lowered himself and elevated Ford.

Why is the mayor getting into verbal spats with a city councillor over the latter’s false bravado?

The fact is Tory was leading Ford in the mayoral race, according to the polls, when Ford had to withdraw due to his cancer diagnosis.

When Doug Ford replaced his brother on the mayoral ballot, Tory beat him.

Case closed. Tory won. The Fords lost. Close only counts in horseshoes.

Hasn’t Tory figured out by now that this is how Rob Ford operates?

He’s a lone wolf, happiest when one of his political insults hits the mark, as it obviously did with Tory.

In future, whenever Ford does this stuff *— and there’s going to be lots more of it — Tory should either ignore him or laugh it off and simply say he wants to work with all members of council to build a better city.

Indeed, Tory’s best answer to Ford’s needling is to do what he’s been doing — showing up for work early and staying late.

Tory’s biggest strength is that he’s the anti-Ford.

As Tory’s political mentor, former Ontario premier Bill Davis, used to say, “bland works.”

Tory should heed that wise advice.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hmm, the Sun glass house needs to meet stone.

AoD

 

[Videodrome]

They are the ones running pro-Ford stories every week...

 

[justindw]

Tory nicely alpha-dogged Ford down, and then (as a surprised bonus) the Sun tells all its readers that, um, yeah, Tory won and would have won even if Ford stayed in the race.

I don't agree with the majority of Tory's policies, but it looks like he did the right thing there.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tory nicely alpha-dogged Ford down, and then (as a surprised bonus) the Sun tells all its readers that, um, yeah, Tory won and would have won even if Ford stayed in the race.

I don't agree with the majority of Tory's policies, but it looks like he did the right thing there.

JT got too much class, but perhaps boycotting Sun reporters might be a good move.

AoD

 

[JWBF]

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/18/someone-tell-tory-he-won-fords-lost

Wow, a Sun editorial that makes sense! I agree that Tory has nothing to prove since he won the election.

It's just another pro-Ford story.