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picard102 said:
As someone from "the north", it's really not hard to get booze and drugs. It's almost easier.
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I spent a lot of years in the north. “Shipping” fellow humans north for theoretical make work projects is no solution to anything. And yes, there is plenty of readily available booze and drugs in the north.

Are we returning to the days of forced labour camps perhaps? Or sending people to Australia? Or maybe we should lie to them like Ron DeSantis did?
 
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PinkLucy said:
Are we returning to the days of forced labour camps perhaps? Or sending people to Australia?
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That is what my Grandparents did in 1958. They were shipped as refugees to Australia and the Bonegilla Reception Centre. From there they were provided with shelter and work. They were required to work as needed otherwise they would be forced to pay back the money spent on them and be asked to leave.

Once they were settled, they were told to find a place of their own and provided with the paperwork to do so.

It worked, they had a viable work force while helping people build new lives.
 
Richard White said:
That is what my Grandparents did in 1958. They were shipped as refugees to Australia and the Bonegilla Reception Centre. From there they were provided with shelter and work. They were required to work as needed otherwise they would be forced to pay back the money spent on them and be asked to leave.
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That's swell. But the problem w/this argument, as far as it goes is:

1) Because something was done 80 years ago or 180 years or 280 years ago does not automatically make it reasonable today. Obviously extreme, but slavery is an immediate comparitor.

2) Your grandparents, presumably had education and skills that lined up with available work. The requisite formal education/training required of the average person in the workforce in 1958 was far lower than that today.
My father managed a large bank in downtown Toronto in the '60s..... he also didn't graduate High School, he worked his way up from teller. You can't do that today, for the most part.

3) The homeless are not really akin to refugees. On an individual basis some may have fled a personal tyranny such as child or spousal abuse, but that isn't really comparable with fleeing political tyranny, famine, war or the like.

4) Your grandparents were not citizens of the country they arrived in; which confers and conferred a lesser level of rights vs a citizen. Most people who are homeless (in Canada) are Canadian citizens.

Richard White said:
Once they were settled, they were told to find a place of their own and provided with the paperwork to do so.

It worked, they had a viable work force while helping people build new lives.
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Uh huh, but how does that work when:

1669844565658.png


From: https://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/topics/mental-health

AND

1669844657771.png

From: https://www.banyantreatmentcenter.com/2020/07/01/a-look-at-homeless-addicts-philadelphia/


When you consider the above are a majority of homeless persons suited to immediate full-time employment? Are they ready for a formal education/training program? Can they reasonably be expected to be self-supporting within...... 90 days, if given a one-time hand?

I would argue the answer is no.

Certainly there are people who are homeless for whom the only issue is lack of a job (and housing) and if these were rectified they could put their life back in order. But I think its fair to say this is well under 1/2 of the overall group; and the remainder may include groups such as those with physical disabilities, learning disabilities, or other impediments to employment.

*****

There is no difficulty with arguing that people living in parks is not acceptable. Its not, but one needs to offer a constructive solution, (solutions) for different people in difference circumstances. The one you have proposed, even if it passed constitutional muster (which is unlikely) simply isn't workable for the majority of those in need.
 
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Richard White said:
That is what my Grandparents did in 1958. They were shipped as refugees to Australia and the Bonegilla Reception Centre. From there they were provided with shelter and work. They were required to work as needed otherwise they would be forced to pay back the money spent on them and be asked to leave.

Once they were settled, they were told to find a place of their own and provided with the paperwork to do so.

It worked, they had a viable work force while helping people build new lives.
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That is FAR from the same situation and is a VERY poor comparison.
 
Northern Light said:
When you consider the above are a majority of homeless persons suited to immediate full-time employment? Are they ready for a formal education/training program? Can they reasonably be expected to be self-supporting within...... 90 days, if given a one-time hand?

I would argue the answer is no.

Certainly there are people who are homeless for whom the only issue is lack of a job (and housing) and if these were rectified they could put their life back in order. But I think its fair to say this is well under 1/2 of the overall group; and the remainder may include groups such as those with physical disabilities, learning disabilities, or other impediments to employment.
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I have a niece who's suffered from various states of mental health and addiction for nearly a decade (she's barely in her mid-20s). Three kids in foster care and a hardcore meth/fentanyl addiction later…

She has now been clean for over 7 months. She spent the first 5 of those months being clean in a tent in a park. Living in a tent actually helped her get away from her routine of staying with addict friends who'd only contribute to the problem. She finally has housing and only now feels stable enough to take on a job and think of her future.

When you finally make the move to rebuild your entire self, to pull yourself up from your very rock bottom, nothing else should matter and nothing else is as important. You shouldn't have to worry about being to work for 9am; about how any little slip can kick you down to the bottom again. Your "work" is yourself.

It's never going to be perfect, and by-effing-gawd it shouldn't be subjected to random tests or checkmarks on some arbitrary list of "proof".
 
Shifting direction here.......... many people often comment in passing or make queries in various development threads about City Planning having a high 'churn' rate. (Meaning turnover of staff as people leave the department either
for the private sector or another public-sector employer).

In a report to next week's Executive Committee meeting we see something that very rarely happens in the City....

A move to unilaterally increase wages for City Planning staff in the middle of a collective agreement, initiated by the City to try to staunch the loss of experienced personnel.


From the above:

1669920191034.png


Above, see that in all but one year of the last six Planning has an churn rate in the range of 50% higher than the City as a whole.

While 2021 saw a reversal of that, most of that was determined by a skyrocketing churn rate across the City rather than greater stability in Planning.

2022, is on pace to possibly set a record, given than the year isn't even done and churn is at 15%!

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Told by the police that, "It's the mayor fault." Okay...

Toronto woman says cops blew her off as people tried to break into her home​


From link.

If you want the police to show up at your home lickety split when someone is trying to break in, you'd better get shot or stabbed.

This is the message one Toronto woman walked away with after trying to solicit help from the cops on Monday night during an active home invasion attempt.

Sahar Olivia Barghian took to TikTok on Tuesday with a harrowing story to warn her fellow Torontonians that they should be on the lookout for any intruders surrounding their homes in the dark evening hours.

She also called out several unnamed Toronto Police Service officers in the video for basically blowing her off while she was in distress, and then telling her it was Mayor John Tory's fault for not giving them a bigger budget.

"Last night, we had an incident where someone tried to break into our home. It was calculated, there were two cars involved and one person directing the whole act," says Barghian in the TikTok.

"But besides that, I just want to explain what I dealt with with Toronto Police."

The young woman explains that during her first call to 911, police were "very accommodating," telling her at the time that they were on their way. Forty minutes later, when nobody had showed up, she called again. This time, the cops were less helpful.

"So this officer, I'm not going to expose him, but this officer told me to call the mayor because 'we're low on staff, and it's the mayor's fault' that they can't accommodate us," she says, arguing that this was a poor excuse for someone to use during an emergency. "You're supposed to help me out."

Two or three hours after the incident, she placed a third phone call to file a report, hoping that officers would attend her home.

"You know what the cop told me? The cop was like, 'because the intruder didn't stab or shoot you, you're not considered a priority'," she says.

"So, I have to go out outside of my house where the intruder is... I have to let him stab the shit out of me or shoot my brains out in order for the police to come to my house to protect my family's safety. I'm f*cking livid."
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1600618274668318720
And it wasn't only the initial phone calls that made her livid, but a fourth follow-up call placed the day after the home invasion attempt.

"You know why I'm livid? Because it's 24 hours after the incident. Did the cops even try to make an attempt to come? No. They told me call the mayor, email the f*cking mayor, because it's his fault," she says.

Getting nowhere on the phone, she attended a local police station and was once again "told the same thing, that because the mayor cut all the costs and reduced a lot of things, there's low staff and they're not able to accommodate everyone."

As the TikTok post racks up views (177K and counting as of Wednesday evening,) Toronto Police say they're concerned to be learning of what Barghian says happened.

Toronto Police Constable Sean Shapiro uploaded a video to the Toronto Police Traffic Unit's surprisingly-active TikTok account today, responding to Barghian's claims.

"Hi, my name is Sean Shapiro from the Toronto Police Service," he says in the clip. "We saw your video and we're very concerned. We'd love the opportunity to speak with you further and get more information. You can reach me by DM or you can also email me... And I hope you do reach out."

"Since I have you here I just want to let you know that we encourage anyone who is dissatisfied with the conduct of a member of the Toronto Police Service to reach out to a supervisor to discuss those concerns," concludes Shapiro. "Thank you."

No word yet on if the woman has reached out to Shapiro directly, though she didn't seem keen on dealing with more cops at the end of her original video.

"Toronto Police, shame on you for not doing your job for not protecting Toronto. For not protecting the citizens of Toronto," she said.

"Crime has increased in Toronto significantly. You can't even feel safe in your own home anymore because of Toronto Police. So f*ck you Toronto Police and thank you."
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The Star quotes Tory as saying

"An exasperated Mayor John Tory is dismissing concerns over his extraordinary new powers as mere “political theatre” of no interest to regular Torontonians.
Tory made the comments Wednesday before the start of city council’s December meeting where councillors will debate the recently passed provincial law that allows him to pass city bylaws with the support of only eight of 25 city councillors."

Is he totally deaf?? There have been complaints from MANY people including all living former Mayors.
 
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