AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
At the very least, individuals of questionable behaviour given the presence of Kouvalis. That said, we also have to consider there aren't any saints, e.g. Kinsella affair.
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- Thread starter MetroMan
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At the very least, individuals of questionable behaviour given the presence of Kouvalis. That said, we also have to consider there aren't any saints, e.g. Kinsella affair.
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nfitz
Superstar
I don't see what Kinsella has to do with Tory. The question was why don't doesn't the left come to Tory.
The answer for many is that John Tory has a history of personally supporting racists and bigots. And not just Rob Ford. Look at some of the positive comments he made about some very bigoted PC candidates when John Tory was party leader.
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Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
OK, I'll bite -- to whom are you referring?
CityPainter
Active Member
Soknacki would have been my ideal choice, but I knew he would never be a front-runner and I wouldn't have thrown my vote away even if he'd stayed in until the bitter end. That's just pragmatism.
My politics lean quite left, and Chow is the "best match" to my views. And I do still like her, despite her lacklustre campaign.
But I will vote for Tory.
I will vote for Tory because I see the left/right and suburban/downtown divisions as the biggest challenge facing Toronto at the moment. This is what is preventing Toronto from living up to its glorious potential. If Chow was to have a late resurgence and win, we'd be faced with 4 more years of bitter divisive battles. The National Post and the Toronto Sun would very quickly take a vigorous anti-Chow stance, attacking her every move in the same no-holds-barred manner that the Star and Globe have been pursuing Ford (justifiably, in my opinion, but this nuance will be lost and the bar for media coverage of politicians has now been permanently lowered.)
Under Chow, council would divide into sharp partisan left/right camps. Drama, bickering and gridlock would define the four years. Every new bike lane would be "WAR ON CAR!" and every new tiny funding source would be "TAX AND SPEND SOCIALIST!" And if anything went wrong -- and something always goes wrong over a four year term -- another right-winger, probably Ford, would absolutely feast on those failures and be swept back into power in 2018. His first act would be to immediately cancel and undo almost everything Chow had accomplished during her 4 years. Toronto would lose again.
Tory, on the other hand, is the perfect candidate for Toronto AT THIS MOMENT in time. Nobody really "loves" him on either the far right or the far left, which is actually ideal. Sure he leans right, but he's more of a centrist than Ford or Chow. He's the reluctant second choice for everyone. Once in power, this puts him in a position to pull in support from the left and right as required for each individual issue rather than based on default partisanship. He's a bit wishy-washy; perhaps he'll swing right on some issues, swing a bit left on others, but in the end SOMETHING can get done, some motions can be passed, and we can move forward. Wynne wouldn't be ashamed to sit down with him and they could talk like adults.
Best of all, under Tory we'd probably have four years of boring snoozy municipal politics, providing time for the extreme divisiveness that marked the Ford and Miller years to simmer down and fade to a fuzzy memory. With any luck, by 2018 the electorate will have lost any lingering desire to return to the Circus of Ford and they'll be more willing to listen to a Soknacki or other similar truly centrist candidate who is more of a compelling visionary than Tory.
And as for Tory being a conservative, well, the sad fact for us lefties is that Toronto as a whole just isn't very lefty at the moment. That Toronto voted in Ford four years ago should make this bluntly clear. Like it or not, fiscal conservatism is what the voters of Toronto want right now. I have no doubt I'll be personally frustrated and disappointed with many of the decisions made under Tory, however, there will at least be opportunities for hope and compromise here and there, and Toronto will no longer be the laughing stock of the world.
My politics lean quite left, and Chow is the "best match" to my views. And I do still like her, despite her lacklustre campaign.
But I will vote for Tory.
I will vote for Tory because I see the left/right and suburban/downtown divisions as the biggest challenge facing Toronto at the moment. This is what is preventing Toronto from living up to its glorious potential. If Chow was to have a late resurgence and win, we'd be faced with 4 more years of bitter divisive battles. The National Post and the Toronto Sun would very quickly take a vigorous anti-Chow stance, attacking her every move in the same no-holds-barred manner that the Star and Globe have been pursuing Ford (justifiably, in my opinion, but this nuance will be lost and the bar for media coverage of politicians has now been permanently lowered.)
Under Chow, council would divide into sharp partisan left/right camps. Drama, bickering and gridlock would define the four years. Every new bike lane would be "WAR ON CAR!" and every new tiny funding source would be "TAX AND SPEND SOCIALIST!" And if anything went wrong -- and something always goes wrong over a four year term -- another right-winger, probably Ford, would absolutely feast on those failures and be swept back into power in 2018. His first act would be to immediately cancel and undo almost everything Chow had accomplished during her 4 years. Toronto would lose again.
Tory, on the other hand, is the perfect candidate for Toronto AT THIS MOMENT in time. Nobody really "loves" him on either the far right or the far left, which is actually ideal. Sure he leans right, but he's more of a centrist than Ford or Chow. He's the reluctant second choice for everyone. Once in power, this puts him in a position to pull in support from the left and right as required for each individual issue rather than based on default partisanship. He's a bit wishy-washy; perhaps he'll swing right on some issues, swing a bit left on others, but in the end SOMETHING can get done, some motions can be passed, and we can move forward. Wynne wouldn't be ashamed to sit down with him and they could talk like adults.
Best of all, under Tory we'd probably have four years of boring snoozy municipal politics, providing time for the extreme divisiveness that marked the Ford and Miller years to simmer down and fade to a fuzzy memory. With any luck, by 2018 the electorate will have lost any lingering desire to return to the Circus of Ford and they'll be more willing to listen to a Soknacki or other similar truly centrist candidate who is more of a compelling visionary than Tory.
And as for Tory being a conservative, well, the sad fact for us lefties is that Toronto as a whole just isn't very lefty at the moment. That Toronto voted in Ford four years ago should make this bluntly clear. Like it or not, fiscal conservatism is what the voters of Toronto want right now. I have no doubt I'll be personally frustrated and disappointed with many of the decisions made under Tory, however, there will at least be opportunities for hope and compromise here and there, and Toronto will no longer be the laughing stock of the world.
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ShonTron
Moderator
His press release this morning doubling-down on his LaughTrack plan calls the Relief Line Subway, which (with Soknacki out) only Chow supports among the major candidates, a "downtown-only subway line."
Sorry, I don't buy that Tory will bridge any divide. He's running a cynical, divisive campaign. It'd be foolish to vote for that man thinking he'll be that reasonable, uniting mayor.
ShonTron
Moderator
I'll bite (and this is not an exhaustive list):
Transportation: supporting more and better bike infrastructure, transit funding (not just megaprojects) - this means bus service improvements. The Ford/Stintz TTC budget cuts is the opposite of a "progressive" municipal policy.
Police: at this stage, a "progressive" policy means standing up to the police, fixing problems such as police carding, police shootings (especially of subjects who are mentally ill) and non-convictionrecord keeping that's been destroying people's careers. Also, looking at cost savings here. Not a peep from Tory on this.
Public realm: Everything from a fine waterfront (sorry, DMW), to better sidewalks and street furniture and more and better parks. It's something that everyone can benefit from but fiscal tightwads don't like spending money on much (except maybe the police). Supporting things like OpenStreets (which Tory refuses to do).
Housing: fixing the TCHC repair backlogs, perhaps even trying to increase the number of units with funds raised from the redevelopment schemes in Regent Park.
Finance: Not being afraid to raise taxes to pay for this stuff.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
What a sorry state of affairs we have in Toronto. Elsewhere, all these things are equally applicable to fiscal conservatives (Like David Soknacki, who did support all these things).
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
His laugh-track is literally GO RER/REX, which will be a Metrolinx affair anyways - and the need for subway transit in downtown can't just be willed away that easily. As to his campaign - not a fan, but in politics, the proof of the pudding is away after the election anyways. It's probably more important to ensure that strong slate of councillors be elected to hold him to account.
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CityPainter
Active Member
I hear you. But the transit plans of all three leading candidates are weak and riddled with holes. I can only assume that in any case, these electioneering transit "plans" will be tossed out in favour of an ad-hoc approach by the winner. It's not a good way to do things, but that's where we are right now.
I'm not suggesting Tory will be a "uniter" in the active sense, merely that he's the least divisive of the three leading candidates by default based on his political position and his less, shall we say "entrenched" voter base.
Also, to be very clear, I'd love for reality to be otherwise, but this is where we are, and this is the conclusion I've personally come to based on the reality of the candidates I see before me 6 weeks from voting day.
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christiesplits
Senior Member
Quote from a commenter at Rabble, a left-wing Canadian politics forum on why many progressives are concerned about a Tory victory:
http://rabble.ca/babble/ontario/2014-toronto-mayoral-election
http://rabble.ca/babble/ontario/2014-toronto-mayoral-election
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Tewder
Senior Member
Agreed. That the list is considered 'progressive' sort of underscores how backward our frontier town burg can feel at times!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I find the argument that Rob Ford is better because he creates a policy paralysis disturbing to say the least. The need for proper governance transcend ideology.
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CityPainter
Active Member
Agreed. The Rabble stance (that Ford's incompetence makes him preferable to Tory from a lefty perspective) has occurred to me as well. However it's a huge gamble to rely on that. Don't forget that if Ford is re-elected his "reduced powers" would all be returned to him. Furthermore, other councilors would have to acknowledge that the electorate had given Ford a fresh mandate and at least attempt to work with him. He will not be totally sidelined as he's been during the latter half of this term, unless he engages in a new round of crack-induced scandal (not impossible, but again, relying on that seems risky.)
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I've thought about this as well and came to the conclusion that Tory is just too wishy-washy to actually implement a right-wing agenda. It is equally if not more likely that Tory is a weak mayor who does whatever council wants to do, which I am totally ok with.
Ford on the other hand is completely contrarian and absolutely toxic in council discourse. Like in the past 4 years, nothing will get done. Unlike the past 4 years, we won't have the sound policies and agenda of the Miller era to guide the city's progress and political discourse.
There should be no partisanship in municipal politics in my opinion, either from the left or right. It is counter-productive at the municipal level.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The thought has occurred to me as well, but as someone who is slightly left of centre I find the attitude of rather having someone incompetent than someone who isn't a perfect ideological fit arrogant - there is no good to be achieved by holding the city hostage - and Ford has proven to be so damaging that it is unclear how four more years of his lack of leadership can help focus attention to the myriad of issues facing the city. To be uncharitable, this is the anti-Ford Nation one should strive to avoid.
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