evandyk
Senior Member
They should just put in speedbumps instead where the cameras were. Give the vandals what they want.
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- Thread starter DSCToronto
- Start date
RapidTransit
Active Member
Outside of this forum, there's a huge support to get rid of them.
If the speed limit stayed the same , and wasn't reduced, on top of the speed cameras I wouldn't have a problem with them.
Speed limits aren't the problem , it's ppl speeding that's the problem. Maybe raise the speed limit pre 2019 or whenever it was. Especially now that we have speed cameras so there's more flow, or a reasonable speed, then install speed cameras, to keep ppl in check. I think that could be a better middle ground. Some sections of road is way to slow, then they add the cameras, that will agitate anyone.
And even traffic calming measures don't really take in consideration of buses manuovering around or flow of traffic.
evandyk
Senior Member
The speed limit should be slow (should probably be 30 rather than 40) on Parkside because it's a residential street with houses on one side and a busy park on the other. There are several busy pedestrian crossings. The camera isn't really working, so they should redesign the street so that drivers have the right cues to drive at an appropriate speed for the use of the road.
Richard White
Senior Member
zang
Senior Member
Except there was a problem with them when the Rae government instituted photo radar in the 1990s, before speed limits changed.
People feel entitled to speed; there's nothing more to it than that.
Says you. And do you have any work experience in public safety? There's a reason limits were lowered; because (if obeyed) they cause fewer traffic and pedestrian fatalities. There is well researched empircal data behind this. Capitulating to a bunch of people who just don't want to follow rules because they're whiny and self-entitled children doesn't seem like great policy. Seeing laws designed to save lives as a hinderance to your getting somewhere slightly faster is the epitome of self-centred.
You're also aware that the high profile camera on Parkside Drive was installed entirely because many people seem to want to ignore anything even close to the *previous* speed limit.
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txlseries4
Active Member
Public opinion polling reflects the complete opposite
Corporate News and Media Release
Read CAA's latest news and media release: auto, safe driving, insurance, travel, government relations, community involvement, and more.
"Despite the increased ticketing in Ontario this year, many drivers support the use of ASE cameras, especially in school zones or areas with vulnerable road users. Nearly three-quarters of Ontario drivers (73 per cent) support the use of ASE in target areas such as school zones or near community centres. In fact, 76 per cent of Ontarians believe that cameras deter speeding altogether."
wopchop
Building Toronto
There wouldn't be so many attention to the issue if they weren't constantly being vandalized.
With all the technology we have, Toronto decided to made the speed cameras these massive, easily targeted devices. This was entirely predictable.
Oakville has ones with similar issues, and of course they get vandalized too.
There are other municipalities that are putting them up high on hydro poles or light poles.
We have had red light camera up on poles for years and years, and you don't hear anything about that.
With all the technology we have, Toronto decided to made the speed cameras these massive, easily targeted devices. This was entirely predictable.
Oakville has ones with similar issues, and of course they get vandalized too.
There are other municipalities that are putting them up high on hydro poles or light poles.
We have had red light camera up on poles for years and years, and you don't hear anything about that.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Wait.....the problem is 'bad/criminal' behavior..............and the answer is to make that behavior legal, so its not a crime/bad anymore?
I know how to solve the auto theft problem, just make taking someone else's car without their permission, legal! See, no more auto theft.......ummmm
Northern Light
Superstar
Redesign of Parkside is advancing. Not as fast as some would like, understandably....but there is forward motion.
Northern Light
Superstar
Absolutely not. They slow down buses and streetcars and cyclists and pedestrians too. Toronto already has among the highest number of traffic lights (relative to road/population).
We could use less, not more.
Sure, that, I have no problem with. Though, not particularly pertinent to the speeding question.
wopchop
Building Toronto
The old photo radar situation is a bit different. Photo radar was being used by police on the 400-series highways. I don't believe it was used on any local roads at all.
If you had speeding cameras right now on the 400-series, and people were getting tickets for 10kph over, I suspect that the public polls would not be in support of it at all. The cameras wouldn't last a month.
However, our current situation is that speed cameras are being used in residential/school/special zones, and I believe that most locals do in fact support the use of the speed cameras for this purpose.
rbt
Senior Member
That sometimes happens; Cannabis use being an obvious recent example.
NOTE, I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal, I'm saying it was made legal because it was popular despite being illegal. If the number of Canadian cannabis users was single digits during the early 2000's it never would have been legalized.
Northern Light
Superstar
I agree.
However, deaths/serious injuries caused by cannabis are quite rare; deaths caused by speeding/reckless driving, are considerably more common.
So with cannabis, I think you could say a case was reasonably made, not that the behavior is harm-free, but that them majority of the harm is to one's self.......and that the harms/costs from it being criminal reasonably exceeded any benefits (deterrence)
I don't think the data would point in the same direction with speeding (which in any event is mostly non-criminal, but is illegal)
zang
Senior Member
Different speeds, for sure. But they were entirely removed because of excessive driver complaint. Not because they were deemed "unfair" by law. If you want to take the risk of speeding, that's up to you. Speed cameras just force responsibility in those who do, which is the ultimate problem. People don't want to take responsibility for their risk to the public.
It's the ultimate in libertarian government funding (user fees), and yet Neo-liberals and conservatives hate it. I wonder why.
But again, that's entitlement. People have gotten away with speeding for so long that they think it's some kind of unwritten rule that you shouldn't get a ticket for doing 10km/h over the speed limit. I'm sure the belief stems from the idea that speedometers aren't as accurate as they should be. Which is absolutely ridiculous, as if you're clocked going 10k over, your speedometer possibly said an even higher number.
And who's responsibility is it to ensure your car's speedometer is accurate anyway?
In addition, there're even more accurate ways to now gauge your own speed. Most phones can do it better; dedicated SatNavs, likewise. It's not an excuse anymore to allow (or expect) such a large margin of "gimme".
Unless you're driving an emergency vehicle, no one should have any given expectation in being allowed to speed.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
In fact one can argue photo radar is probably the fairest way to enforce speed limits - putting aside the distribution of the cameras - since there is no discretion by the officer. If there is a need to provide some flexibility, tune the issuing of fines to violation of limits by say 5 or 10 kph.
AoD