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IMO, the best way to improve transportation in Toronto is to get the users to pay for it -- meaning road tolls to cover highway/street costs and 100% operations from the farebox. I would couple this with a matching drop in property taxes.

100% cost recovery at the fare box is completely unfeasible. The TTC already recoups much more from the user than most other transit systems - asking the users to pay even more is obscene. Remember, we are trying to get people to take transit - how many people would really be able to afford it under your proposal? Public transit was created to ensure that everyone could get around.

And what good is a property tax decrease to renters? How many transit riders actually pay property tax directly? And spare me the argument that cheaper property taxes for renters = cheaper rent. Landlords will not decrease rent payments willingly.

And what about tourists? What good is a world-class transit system if it prices itself out of the tourist market?

Transit ridership is increasing because it has become a much cheaper alternative - jacking up the price would piss off way too many people and would tarnish the city's reputation elsewhere. Under your proposal for $5 fare you would make someone earning minimum wage pay more than an hour's work just to get there and back. People already get pissed off at $0.05 increases in fare...try explaining one in the triple digits.

As for P3s, I think they only make the pricetag look smaller in the short term. In the long run they will cost the government more. Look at the 407 for example. Even just building it privately ultimately takes more money out of government coffers. The money spent on our workers goes to pay income tax, sales tax on their purchases, helps save for their children's education, helps them save for retirement so that they can be self-sufficient in old age, etc. In my mind, hiring a private contractor in this case is just paying some rich people to do the government's dirty work.

If we really wanted to save money, contract the people responsible for this.

Now, on to the actual plan. I'm a little concerned about the leaked information, though I'll reserve judgment until the report is released. Concerns I have are mostly over the two agencies already showing a lack of co-operation and a fundamental disagreement in vision. I'd have to say I see myself as being more in the middle of all this. Sometimes subways should be built, others streetcars (and even then, each form - mixed traffic/private ROW/grade separated - are justifiable under the right conditions). Other times BRT, expresses buses, local service buses, trolley buses, etc. make sense. Neither the TTC or Metrolinx seem to grasp this completely.

Nor do they seem to be able to grasp the idea of multiple modes of transit on one corridor. You could, for example, put a subway on Queen with limited stops for a quick ride over long distances. Meanwhile, keep the 501 for local service. The distance between the stops makes the subway commute fast while the streetcar takes you where you need to go much closer to the end point. This will not happen.

I do not support a Queen subway, nor do I support the DRL-lite (LRT). It is of my opinion that the DRL to Union would relieve the Queen car out East and West at the stations placed there. Split the 501 route - but I won't get into my plan into detail here - maybe after the report is released. The DRL as subway to Union could, I think, help make Queen service more reliable.

I have to admit, I was really excited about the Eglinton LRT. I originally supported a subway on this corridor, but the more I found out about the LRT proposal, the more I liked it in general as compared to the subway proposal.

What I'm hoping is that Metrolinx is playing politics here and wants to present an extreme vision so that they appear to be making concessions to TTC demands while expecting concessions on their end. A sad state of affairs, but what else is new?
 
The price of gas has increased at a much greater rate than fares... A fare increase would therefore be tolerated without much impact on ridership.

What about the people who already take transit because they can't afford cars? People living on lower incomes, students, etc. The discounted rates are still pinching hard on them. When minimum wage increases to represent a liveable wage maybe then a significant fare increase would be more agreeable.

This isn't just about attracting drivers to transit (which is a noble cause nonetheless), it's about serving the public (including the public who've relied on transit for financial reasons since it's birth).

I'm not trying to be a hardcore socialist here, but I figure the TTC should put its loyal customer base first and foremost in transit planning. There are other ways to increase funding.
 
Before I get to giddy, I'd like to hear about their alignment for the "DCL" and what kind of equipment and station upgrades they plan for these express GO trains (hopefully raising platform heights and using EMUs).

Seconded. Especially the raised platform heights.

I hope they understand that they can retain their existing bi-level equipment to run regional express services to our far-flung bedroom communities like Niagara, Barrie, Cobourg, Peterborough and Kitchener.

That would be difficult if they go to raised platforms since the GO bi-levels only have low doors unlike the latest purchases from AMT and NJ Transit which handle both platform heights.

A Sheppard subway is conspicuously absent from the plan as are simple upgrades like signal priority for buses or bus-only lanes along certain strategic suburban corridors, like Hwy 2.

I think the Sheppard subway would likely either be mentioned as "subway-like" or as an extension to Downsview before getting mentioned in Metrolinx plans as an extension to SCC. I'm sure signal priority and bus-only lanes are in there somewhere but not mentioned because for a leaked document mentioning a bus doesn't have the same "wow factor".
 
Map!

although apparantly there will be a new network of "express roads" and "commuter roads" ;) (typo)

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/490345

Toronto's transit plans on separate tracks

Regional draft offers alternative to TTC's light rail network
Sep 04, 2008 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (3)
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter

It is a competing vision of how to solve Toronto's growing gridlock crisis.

A draft proposal of the Metrolinx regional transportation plan shows a juiced-up version of the planned light rail line across Eglinton, the conversion of the Sheppard subway to light rail and another U-shaped subway that includes Queen St.

If the plans were to proceed, the three east-west endeavours could derail significant pieces of the TTC's highly touted Transit City plan to build $10 billion worth of light rail lines to Toronto's borders.

They're also among a few surprises contained in a preliminary draft of the regional transportation plan by Metrolinx, which has repeatedly promised a bold approach to attacking road congestion in the GTA.

Metrolinx, formerly the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, was created by the province in 2006. Its 11-member board, which includes Mayor David Miller, has been mandated to develop a regional transportation plan designed to be "a seamless, integrated transit network" from Hamilton to Newmarket to Oshawa.

Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac stressed yesterday that the versions already circulating among board members and transportation insiders aren't the ones that will be released to the public at the end of the month.


But he expects many of the ideas will be the same.

The plans include campaigns to devote more road space to transit, promote biking and walking, expand GO service around the region to two-way service every 15 minutes, extend major regional highways and build a high-speed rail link between Pearson airport and Union Station.

The early drafts include a map showing a "Metro" line along Eglinton, as well as a light rail line where the Sheppard subway currently exists. Sources have said Metrolinx has been pushing for a subway line along Eglinton.

MacIssac denied this. "I do not anticipate we will be recommending a subway on Eglinton," he said, admitting he doesn't want to inflame tensions between the provincial planning agency and Toronto.

"I really want to downplay that we're in a pitched battle with the city. We need to continue to work with them to try so that the regional and local needs are met on Eglinton," said MacIsaac.

Asked whether Metrolinx plans to recommend against portions of the Transit City lines, MacIsaac said, "the heart and soul of Transit City will be in our plan, I predict."

If there's limited money on the table, the last thing the 905-area municipalities are going to want is $6 billion chewed up by a subway, said Toronto transit advocate Steve Munro. "It's like the Sheppard subway. The problem with these gigantic projects is they use all the money. But what portion of the regional demand does it address?"

One city source, who wouldn't be named, pointed to the draft's designation of Eglinton as a "Metro" line. Metrolinx defines "Metro" as grade-separated electric rail, which can run below ground or elevated such as Vancouver's SkyTrain. But it can also mean light rail on the surface, as the TTC has planned.

But Vancouver-style light rail would never get off the ground since the city owns the road, said the source.

MacIsaac said the idea of a subway line running from Don Mills station down to Queen St., west to Dundas West station is "not inconsistent" with the TTC's plans and only appears under the longer-term 25-year Metrolinx proposals.

TTC chair Adam Giambrone, also on the Metrolinx board, said such a line to relieve overcrowding on the Yonge subway might be appropriate after 2018, when the bulk of the seven proposed Transit City lines would be operational.

"What I can tell you is the city is very committed to implementing Transit City as is," he said. "We want to help accommodate longer distance travel but it can't be at the expense of local travel.

"This is not all about regional express service. If we're serious about getting more people on transit we need good local transit."

Miller said he hadn't read the regional transportation plan draft but told reporters, "it's an issue of meeting transportation demand and being affordable.

"Those are the issues. Can we build rapid transit for Toronto's neighbourhoods in the near future? Is there a way to finance that cost? And does it meet the transportation demands? Those are the questions the TTC asked itself in developing Transit City. And those are certainly the questions I'll look at when I review the draft Metrolinx plan."

The Metrolinx board will discuss the draft plan at a King City retreat tomorrow and Saturday.

Premier Dalton McGuinty also said he had not seen the Metrolinx draft. He noted his government's MoveOntario plan is worth $17.5 billion, including one-third federal funding that Ottawa has yet to fully commit. "The issue is what's the best way to invest this money," he told reporters.

How Metrolinx proposes to pay for the transit and other improvements is still unclear. Some early plans value the costs at about $55 billion. The TTC has suggested an Eglinton subway would cost about $10 billion.

But MacIsaac said the final version of the regional plan would not be worth $55 billion.

"We're working within the constraints that we've been given. Although we recognize MoveOntario 2020 is a huge start it's not the end and I don't think anybody ever said it would be," he said.

A draft investment strategy, addressing possible revenue tools such as a gas tax, road tolls and parking levies, is to be released along with the regional transportation plan at the end of the month.

With files from Paul Moloney and Rob Ferguson


METROLINX

• Created in 2006 as the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority to fulfill an election pledge by Premier Dalton McGuinty. Renamed Metrolinx last December.

• At its core is the development of a regional transportation plan, designed to be "a seamless, integrated transit network" from Hamilton to Newmarket to Oshawa, an area comprising nine transit systems handling over 518 million annual passenger trips and some of the busiest roads in the country.

• Has an 11-member board, including two provincial nominees and others from regional and municipal councils in the GTA and Hamilton.

• Responsible for evaluating, prioritizing and recommending implementation plans for 52 rapid transit improvements and expansions across the region as part of the province's MoveOntario 2020, an $11.5 billion ($17.5 billion if Ottawa joins in) pledge in 2007 that forms the core of the regional transportation plan.

• Last fall and winter, Metrolinx produced papers on transportation issues, from road tolls and high-speed trains to cycling and sustainability.

• Later this month, it's to release a draft of the transportation plan and detail how to pay for it.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080904.wtransit04/BNStory/National/home

Miller backs city plan over Metrolinx draft
$55-billion alternative to 'Transit City' fails to sway mayor

JEFF GRAY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

September 4, 2008 at 5:01 AM EDT

Mayor David Miller defended his proposed Transit City light-rail network yesterday, responding to word that a draft transportation plan from the provincial agency Metrolinx would rewrite his scheme and call for a more expensive subway-like rail line underneath Eglinton Avenue.

Metrolinx - whose board is made up of Mr. Miller and other Toronto-area local politicians - is at loggerheads with the TTC over his plan to set up a network of larger, more modern streetcars in dedicated lanes, with a partly tunnelled line serving Eglinton.

According to an unreleased draft of Metrolinx's $55-billion, 25-year transportation plan, the agency is insisting on instead building a higher-capacity subway or a buried version of the Scarborough RT line along Eglinton, something TTC officials say is unwarranted by ridership projections and could cost as much as $10-billion, instead of the current Eglinton project's price tag of $2.2-billion.

"Transit City is the TTC's plan and it meets the needs from now for at least the next 30 years," Mr. Miller told reporters yesterday, adding that discussions with Metrolinx are continuing. "... It provides light rail as a coherent system. That's why the plan works and why it is financially affordable."

The Eglinton line is among the proposals in a confidential draft transportation plan - viewed by The Globe and Mail this week - calling for $55-billion worth of public transit and highway expansion in the Toronto area over 25 years.

In addition to concern from city officials, the plan attracted criticism from environmentalists, who warn it would likely do too little to reduce greenhouse gases.

The draft plan says it will boost public transit use and reduce the annual amount of transportation greenhouse gases emitted per person to 1.83 tonnes from 2.47 tonnes. But, since the population will increase, overall greenhouse-gas emissions from transportation will still rise.

Katrina Miller of the Toronto Environmental Alliance said this shows the plan's shortcomings: "They said they wanted to be bold. But this plan is bold in the wrong places."

The draft plan also calls for 4,600 kilometres of new lanes of road, for the expansion of Highway 407 east to Clarington and, in the draft version seen by The Globe, unspecified expansions of the 410, 404 and 427.

Mark Winfield, an assistant professor of environmental studies at York University, said many of the expansions had been put aside after the provincial Liberals brought in their plan to curtail sprawl.

"These are fights that we thought were over and had been dropped," Dr. Winfield said. "... Have the various regional politicians managed to slip these things back onto the agenda?"

The draft was to be discussed by the Metrolinx board in a private session later this week. Another draft version was to be released later this month for public consultations, with a final version submitted to the provincial government later this year.

With a report from Jennifer Lewington

What's in Metrolinx's $55-billion proposal

A draft version - subject to change - of Metrolinx's $55-billion, 25-year Toronto-area transportation plan, viewed by The Globe and Mail, includes:

More trains: GO Train riders in Hamilton, Mississauga, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Oshawa would see all-day, two-way service to Union Station every 15 minutes.

An express train would also run every 15 minutes from Union Station to Pearson Airport. Regular GO Transit commuter-rail service expansions or improvements include routes to Niagara, Kitchener-Waterloo, Bowmanville and Aurora.

More subways: A subway, or subway-like line would replace current plans for a cheaper light-rail line on Eglinton.

A new "downtown core" subway line connecting to the Bloor-Danforth line would run east-west along King or Queen streets.

More light-rail, more buses: A modified version of the TTC's plans would see modern low-floor streetcars in dedicated lanes along Finch, Sheppard, Jane and Don Mills Road and along the waterfront.

Local rapid-transit bus or light-rail services would be built along key routes in Hamilton and Halton, Peel, York and Durham Regions.

More roads: While the draft plan lacks specifics, it calls for at least 4,600 kilometres of new lanes of road, including the extension of Highway 407 east to Clarington, as well as extensions to the 404, 427 and 410.

It also calls for continued expansion of the province's high-occupancy-vehicle lane network.

Jeff Gray
 
And what good is a property tax decrease to renters? How many transit riders actually pay property tax directly? And spare me the argument that cheaper property taxes for renters = cheaper rent. Landlords will not decrease rent payments willingly.

By law -- todays laws -- all reductions of property tax must be passed on directly to the renter. The city is extremely aggressive about enforcing this to the point where landlords register existing rent with the city and the city sends the notice to the tenant about their upcoming rent reduction.

In commercial, tax increases and reductions are almost always directly passed on to the tenant.
 
Just took a peak at Metrolinx's draft transit proposal map, they have transit hubs up in Bolton, Stouffville and around the Cornell area? in Markham, but eliminated the existing transit hub at Kennedy subway station? I hope this was a typo.
 
Were you looking at one made by the newspapers? Can their quality control be relied upon?

I'm not trying to stifle discussion and debate because my duty on the advisory committee is to analyze the debate and bring it to their attention - I just want everyone to have an accurate view of what the RTP calls for, and it is very unclear if this "leak" is an accurate view.
 
MacIsaac already is strongly indicating that the leaked information does not reflect what will be released at the end of the month. I wonder if it may have been an earlier draft of the document.
 
I can say with 100% certainty that there are some errors in The Star's map (which incidentally is not the real map, it's just a Star-created figure)... just wait a few weeks and the real one will be out.
 
Were you looking at one made by the newspapers? Can their quality control be relied upon?

I'm not trying to stifle discussion and debate because my duty on the advisory committee is to analyze the debate and bring it to their attention - I just want everyone to have an accurate view of what the RTP calls for, and it is very unclear if this "leak" is an accurate view.

Hi RedRocket191, I didn't know it was a leaked document! Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was odd there were no greater fanfare about the release of the document.
 

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