timio
Active Member
Current rumbling in KW is that Bombardier is delaying delivery to use the vehicle as a showpiece for this event. Not sure how substantiated, but it's somewhat ridiculous if true.
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- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
Markster
Senior Member
Whatever the causality, the real grumble is that we were promised more cars by the end of November, and it's a slap in the face to see fully operational cars in action in Kingston.
Allandale25
Senior Member
I would just point out that there are three parties involved in the delivery: Bombardier, the Region, and Metrolinx. So, unless there is a public reason provided, there's always the potential that one of those three is responsible, or a combination. In other words, it's not always automatically one over the other.
drum118
Superstar
Based on reports for delivery, going out on the limb and saying this is both Metrolinx and Bombardier delay with Bombardier in the driver seat.
Allandale25
Senior Member
TOareaFan
Superstar
Well, that did not go well!
ML went from 182 vehicles at $770MM ($4.2MM per vehicle)to $913MM for 137 vehicles ($6.7MM per).
BBD got an overall order reduction but a 20% bump in the price per vehicle.
Are the differences in vehicles enough to make this roughly equal for ML?
and, it turns out, ML had to agree to extend the BBD contract to operate GO by 18 months to make them whole on the deal.
https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/943877907805589504
ML went from 182 vehicles at $770MM ($4.2MM per vehicle)to $913MM for 137 vehicles ($6.7MM per).
BBD got an overall order reduction but a 20% bump in the price per vehicle.
Are the differences in vehicles enough to make this roughly equal for ML?
and, it turns out, ML had to agree to extend the BBD contract to operate GO by 18 months to make them whole on the deal.
https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/943877907805589504
Statement
Statement from the Minister of Transportation on a New Agreement for Eglinton Crosstown Vehicles
December 21, 2017
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, released the following statement on a new agreement with Bombardier for light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown:
"Our government is committed to delivering the transit that the people of Ontario and the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) deserve. A critically important part of that commitment is making sure that all of our suppliers are fulfilling their contractual obligations.
In May, our government announced that we were taking strong and decisive action to ensure that quality light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown and other LRT projects would be provided on time. This included signing a new agreement with Alstom Canada to provide vehicles that would be used on Toronto-area transit projects.
As a result of the steps that our government took at that time, along with the leadership of Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster, Bombardier has now accepted a new agreement to provide the number of vehicles required for the Eglinton Crosstown. The new agreement includes more prescriptive performance deadlines and a new late delivery penalty that provides us with the confidence that they will deliver on time for the opening of this critical transit project. The new agreement also requires that Bombardier provide Metrolinx with the opportunity to adequately assess delivery progress on an ongoing and regular basis, along with additional penalties.
We will continue to be vigilant with respect to Bombardier's performance. Simply put, they are expected to deliver as per our new agreement or face significant consequences.
This new agreement does not affect the contract previously signed with Alstom, as the Alstom vehicles ordered will be used on other LRT projects.
As Minister of Transportation, my responsibility is to deliver a seamless and integrated transit network that the people of the GTHA. Working together, we will ensure that the Eglinton Crosstown and all of our other priority transit projects open on time."
Statement from the Minister of Transportation on a New Agreement for Eglinton Crosstown Vehicles
December 21, 2017
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, released the following statement on a new agreement with Bombardier for light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown:
"Our government is committed to delivering the transit that the people of Ontario and the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) deserve. A critically important part of that commitment is making sure that all of our suppliers are fulfilling their contractual obligations.
In May, our government announced that we were taking strong and decisive action to ensure that quality light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown and other LRT projects would be provided on time. This included signing a new agreement with Alstom Canada to provide vehicles that would be used on Toronto-area transit projects.
As a result of the steps that our government took at that time, along with the leadership of Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster, Bombardier has now accepted a new agreement to provide the number of vehicles required for the Eglinton Crosstown. The new agreement includes more prescriptive performance deadlines and a new late delivery penalty that provides us with the confidence that they will deliver on time for the opening of this critical transit project. The new agreement also requires that Bombardier provide Metrolinx with the opportunity to adequately assess delivery progress on an ongoing and regular basis, along with additional penalties.
We will continue to be vigilant with respect to Bombardier's performance. Simply put, they are expected to deliver as per our new agreement or face significant consequences.
This new agreement does not affect the contract previously signed with Alstom, as the Alstom vehicles ordered will be used on other LRT projects.
As Minister of Transportation, my responsibility is to deliver a seamless and integrated transit network that the people of the GTHA. Working together, we will ensure that the Eglinton Crosstown and all of our other priority transit projects open on time."
drum118
Superstar
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
December 21, 2017
Media Inquiries: Anne Marie Aikins Annemarie.aikins@metrolinx.com
METROLINX STATEMENT ON NEW BOMBARDIER AGREEMENT
TORONTO: December 21, 2017 – Metrolinx has negotiated improved contract terms with Bombardier Transportation that incentivises Bombardier to produce light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown light rail transit (LRT) system, on-time and of the right quality. The new contract terms have significant financial penalties for Bombardier if they fail to deliver quality vehicles on-time.
This new agreement is positive news for commuters who can continue to have full confidence that we are building an excellent transit system for them. We are focused on building a great Eglinton Crosstown LRT with reliable vehicles that are delivered on-time - this is a decisive and significant step towards that goal.
The agreement is for Bombardier to now manufacture 76 light rail vehicles (LRVs) for the Eglinton Crosstown project, 106 vehicles less than the original contract for 182 vehicles.
Under the new terms, Bombardier has agreed to significantly higher levels of financial penalties if it fails to meet the Eglinton production schedule or if the quality of the vehicles is not acceptable. In addition, Bombardier has committed to ensure that the vehicle quality is sustained throughout the lifespan of the vehicles. The new agreement also provides greater visibility and transparency of Bombardier’s production plans and progress.
We want our suppliers to succeed. The new agreement provides compelling incentives for Bombardier to allocate the right resources and attention to the production of our Eglinton vehicles.
Construction on the Eglinton tunnels, tracks and stations is well underway, and with Bombardier incentivised to deliver the vehicles on time, we look forward to launching this outstanding new service.
Phil Verster
President & CEO, Metrolinx
December 21, 2017
Media Inquiries: Anne Marie Aikins Annemarie.aikins@metrolinx.com
METROLINX STATEMENT ON NEW BOMBARDIER AGREEMENT
TORONTO: December 21, 2017 – Metrolinx has negotiated improved contract terms with Bombardier Transportation that incentivises Bombardier to produce light rail vehicles for the Eglinton Crosstown light rail transit (LRT) system, on-time and of the right quality. The new contract terms have significant financial penalties for Bombardier if they fail to deliver quality vehicles on-time.
This new agreement is positive news for commuters who can continue to have full confidence that we are building an excellent transit system for them. We are focused on building a great Eglinton Crosstown LRT with reliable vehicles that are delivered on-time - this is a decisive and significant step towards that goal.
The agreement is for Bombardier to now manufacture 76 light rail vehicles (LRVs) for the Eglinton Crosstown project, 106 vehicles less than the original contract for 182 vehicles.
Under the new terms, Bombardier has agreed to significantly higher levels of financial penalties if it fails to meet the Eglinton production schedule or if the quality of the vehicles is not acceptable. In addition, Bombardier has committed to ensure that the vehicle quality is sustained throughout the lifespan of the vehicles. The new agreement also provides greater visibility and transparency of Bombardier’s production plans and progress.
We want our suppliers to succeed. The new agreement provides compelling incentives for Bombardier to allocate the right resources and attention to the production of our Eglinton vehicles.
Construction on the Eglinton tunnels, tracks and stations is well underway, and with Bombardier incentivised to deliver the vehicles on time, we look forward to launching this outstanding new service.
Phil Verster
President & CEO, Metrolinx
TOareaFan
Superstar
White Pine
Active Member
What's everyone's opinion on this? Is it a punishment of Bombardier or an admission that Metrolinx ordered too many vehicles?
Allandale25
Senior Member
Very interesting. Maybe at a facility connected to the Operations and Maintenance Facility for the HuLRT? Did a quick map. Red = OMF, Light blue = Mississauga/Brampton boundary, Green = Hurontario LRT route.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It seems a compromise to me.
Bombardier gets the same amount of revenue in total (albeit there is an argument they would have won any bidding contest for the extension on the GO contract anyway...but at least now it is guaranteed).....ML gets to reduce their over order albeit their total cost per vehicle now is a good bit higher than it was before their deal with Alstom brought this to light....and, although not described in detail, all parties seem to agree that future penalties on BBD for any slippage in time or quality are worse than under the old deal.
I would bet that the pick up in deliveries of the vehicles to KW gave ML enough confidence to pair back their total combined order of vehicles and also gave BBD the confidence to accept the tougher penalties (which, I would imagine, was likely a mandatory requirement for ML to do a revised deal).
TOareaFan
Superstar
Very interesting. Maybe at a facility connected to the Operations and Maintenance Facility for the HuLRT? Did a quick map. Red = OMF, Light blue = Mississauga/Brampton boundary, Green = Hurontario LRT route.
So they couldn't actually start building them until the MSF is built? Any idea when that is?
I know this worked in Ottawa but I would think we would be better hoping that they establish a more permanent facility where the jobs might stick around after the order is filled rather than disappear on opening day...no?
Allandale25
Senior Member
Really not sure. Not sure if one is dependent on the other. Maybe it would simply be adjacent to the MSF? Not sure what the actual MSF construction timeframe is and can't recall if there a more specific construction schedule available for the HuLRT.
Voltz
Senior Member
It's an admission that they ordered too many vehicles, the Alstrom order seems to have come out of a self developed panic to be seen to do something about Bombardiers problems with the TTC order. It's also an admission that we shouldn't expect further LRT lines, since there are no more vehicles on order, and the price just jumped 20% so they could add penalties to the contract, making further orders less likely.