W. K. Lis
Superstar
The U.S. is behind Canada in using the RFID chip on their credit and debit cards.
|
|
|
The U.S. is behind Canada in using the RFID chip on their credit and debit cards.
nfitz
Superstar
BTW, I spotted a very clear (and recent) statement on TTC's website, that:
Eventually, tickets and tokens will be eliminated as the TTC moves entirely to the PRESTO farecard or cash to pay your fare.
From www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/New_tickets.jsp
Eventually, tickets and tokens will be eliminated as the TTC moves entirely to the PRESTO farecard or cash to pay your fare.
From www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/New_tickets.jsp
TOareaFan
Superstar
The Star has been talking about the Presto roll out a bit over the past couple of days. They note that the installation at Museum (which was discussed here) was a false alarm and the TTC is saying people mis-read the intentions of the construction signage and that it never was meant to say that Presto machines were coming to Museum but, rather, construction of enabling works that would prepare the station for, one day, having Presto machines was happening.
All in all, the story (to a layman) is a bit hard to swallow and even if true has shed, again, light on the whole issue around why it is taking so long to get Presto into the TTC....people, in general, seem to buy that it is difficult to equip a huge fleet of buses and streetcars and new LRT vehicles but once the TTC and ML agreed on Presto i guess the general public can't understand why they did not immediately start showing up in additional subway stations.
It feeds into the image of the TTC (maybe expand that to Ontario) being slow to adopt new technologies and payment systems relative to other jurisdictions. Not only is the Presto roll-out "taking forever" as travellers we have all been exposed to similar systems in other places for a long time now..."this is nothing new" is a general sentiment.
Montreal (as an example) seems to always be ahead of us on this stuff and it is hard to figure out why. Not sure when it rolled out but, I just found out recently that you can actually pay for a fare on the 747 at any parking meter along Rene Levesque Blvd. So, faced with the issue that the driver can only accept coins or prepaid transit cards and that a one way fare during the week is $10 (how many people have $10 change at any given time) they looked around to find a solution. Right there, staring them in the face, was a piece of municipal infrastructure that takes payment by any card (visa/amex/mc/debit) and spits out a piece of paper (typically to be placed on your dash board) and set about turning those into transit payment terminals. You punch in "0747" into the terminal, follow instructions and end up with a bus ticket/pass.
Does anyone think, for a minute, that we are seeing that sort of creative thinking/application in our system(s).....even our legacy system of tokens and tickets should have been updated long ago to allow more "card payments'....why are we today faced with still having to have cash to buy bulk tokens at ttc stations?
Yes our system is bigger and, yes, that probably means a bit more complicated and harder to implement changes....but the gap is far bigger (IMO) than it should be or needs to be.
All in all, the story (to a layman) is a bit hard to swallow and even if true has shed, again, light on the whole issue around why it is taking so long to get Presto into the TTC....people, in general, seem to buy that it is difficult to equip a huge fleet of buses and streetcars and new LRT vehicles but once the TTC and ML agreed on Presto i guess the general public can't understand why they did not immediately start showing up in additional subway stations.
It feeds into the image of the TTC (maybe expand that to Ontario) being slow to adopt new technologies and payment systems relative to other jurisdictions. Not only is the Presto roll-out "taking forever" as travellers we have all been exposed to similar systems in other places for a long time now..."this is nothing new" is a general sentiment.
Montreal (as an example) seems to always be ahead of us on this stuff and it is hard to figure out why. Not sure when it rolled out but, I just found out recently that you can actually pay for a fare on the 747 at any parking meter along Rene Levesque Blvd. So, faced with the issue that the driver can only accept coins or prepaid transit cards and that a one way fare during the week is $10 (how many people have $10 change at any given time) they looked around to find a solution. Right there, staring them in the face, was a piece of municipal infrastructure that takes payment by any card (visa/amex/mc/debit) and spits out a piece of paper (typically to be placed on your dash board) and set about turning those into transit payment terminals. You punch in "0747" into the terminal, follow instructions and end up with a bus ticket/pass.
Does anyone think, for a minute, that we are seeing that sort of creative thinking/application in our system(s).....even our legacy system of tokens and tickets should have been updated long ago to allow more "card payments'....why are we today faced with still having to have cash to buy bulk tokens at ttc stations?
Yes our system is bigger and, yes, that probably means a bit more complicated and harder to implement changes....but the gap is far bigger (IMO) than it should be or needs to be.
BMO
Senior Member
To be honest, it's probably a lot easier to equip buses and Streetcars, rather than subway stations or other fixed infrastructure locations. When the buses end their shift they eventually head back to the depot where all their passenger and PRESTO information would be uploaded to the servers. Whereas subway stations need to have a direct connection to the PRESTO network to upload it directly because you're not going to have someone visit every station and collect the data.
Still you'd think the subway stations would be mostly already connected somehow to the network and we'd see a steady increase in the number of PRESTO enabled stations.
Admittedly the rollout has been longer than what most of us expected. They should have initially rolled out PRESTO through all of the downtown stations rather than just a few.
salsa
Senior Member
Apparently YRT wants to phase out their passes and paper tickets in favour of presto this year. It makes me wonder how the TTC buses that operate north of Steels will be compatible.
Electrify
Senior Member
Does Presto use general network infrastructure at stationary terminals, or are all the terminals connected through their own private wiring? If the former, why not at least get it running at surface stations? Even if it is difficult to setup an internet connection at these stops for some reason, a mobile data setup should be straightforward.
If the latter... WHAT MORON SIGNED OFF ON THIS?!?!
If the latter... WHAT MORON SIGNED OFF ON THIS?!?!
mpd618
Active Member
BMO
Senior Member
Probably their own encrypted network. Since it deals with payment information that needs to be secure. I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the actual physical infrastructure required, but I am assuming it would either replace or tack onto the existing POS infrastructure at the existing subway stations in a way that allows existing TTC fares and payment methods to co-exist with PRESTO until they are phased out.
Mobile data would be out of the question considering the amount of information that would be processed. Having the data stores on the busses until they reach their depot at the end of the night at which point they would upload the information to the network would be the most likely route I'm am nearly 99% sure this is how it functions. It's also more secure, I'd imagine, than having transactions transmitting and receiving all around the city wirelessly and cheaper as well. Even mobile POS machines in restaurants only transmit a small distance to their terminal in the back of the restaurant which is hooked up to the network physically.
Last edited:
BMO
Senior Member
Apparently whatever system they choose will be able to use PRESTO, that was one of the agreements that council required considering they wanted users to be able to use GO as well and transfer between both systems seamlessly. I'm guessing it'll kind of be similar to how the TTC will contract out the operations and maintenance of their LRTs to a third party. Thinkg of the payment system in GRT as a similar way of achieving the same goals. It will allow all the benefits of PRESTO and accept PRESTO, but it'll be implemented and maintained by a third party. At least that is what I've gathered through reading up on it. If someone can confirm or correct this I'd appreciate it.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
TTC isn't contracting out operations. The province wanted it to be privately operated, but after some screaming and yelling from the TTC they decided to let the TTC operate on a contract basis, like how the TTC runs the buses in York.
BMO
Senior Member
thanks, the ongoing saga of transit in Toronto is hard to keep track of!
mpd618
Active Member
BMO
Senior Member
Yea I just searched for PRESTO through the document as well and it seems you are correct. I thought I saw it in the last report to council that was circulated on here a few pages back. The technology they're looking for seems pretty flexible. Hopefully down the line this can be something they can add to it.
MafaldaBoy
Senior Member
Metrolinx is asking for public input on PRESTO machines at TTC stations via the PRESTO Panel:
nfitz
Superstar
Biggest input is it's the wrong colour. Tap in locations are green. Balance checkers used to be green, but they changed them to yellow, because people were getting confused, and trying to tap on with them. Make them yellow.Metrolinx is asking for public input on PRESTO machines at TTC stations via the PRESTO Panel: