[TOareaFan]

So does muller877 think that those who pay $19 by Presto should be the ones to stand, and those that paid $27 should sit?

or perhaps they are advocating for a freight car to be attached at shift end and dubbed "employee car"

 

[muller877]

So does muller877 think that those who pay $19 by Presto should be the ones to stand, and those that paid $27 should sit?

I could see that if it gets busy and there is a new car it should be "business class" (or half of the new car). It would allow for additional revenue generation which is common on various transit services (Heathrow Express as an example).

And, just like UPE there are discounts depending on the method of payment. Heathrow basically charges you more if you pay on-board (versus electronic payments). UPE gives you a discount for using the Presto card (again, electronically).

So yes, I can distinguish between a discount for using an electronic fare system versus manual. And yes, I can see a SUBSIDY that the taxpayers of Ontario are giving to a few workers at YYZ. Just trying to reduce this SUBSIDY that we as taxpayers are paying. (I wish I could get 50% off of my commuting costs!)

I assume the CRA will assess these employees that use the service a taxable benefit. If they are not required to have a presto card to use the service that will be $17 per ride (and at a 40% tax rate that will be the same as the actual subsidy they are receiving).

 

[nfitz]

I assume the CRA will assess these employees that use the service a taxable benefit. If they are not required to have a presto card to use the service that will be $17 per ride (and at a 40% tax rate that will be the same as the actual subsidy they are receiving).

I'd think they can only do that if they are employees of Metrolinx who get the deal. Metrolinx is offering this rate to anyone who works at Pearson for a variety of private companies. If the employer was paying Metrolinx a fee for this service it would make it taxable - but they aren't.

In fact, the UPX website identifies that airport workers will instead qualify for a federal tax credit.

 

[Evening]

Many jurisdictions permit codes of conduct outside of normal working hours. For example, if you drive a company truck you cannot speed (monitored by GPS). There are quite often rules on what can be done in a work uniform. If the employee is wearing the patch of the employer their conduct will impact the public's view of the employer.

Where there are restrictions on codes of conduct, most employers require employees NOT to wear uniforms outside of their place of work (including travelling to and from work). In this case, employees after their shift must change before going home.

If their shift is done and they do not receive any perks, by all means they should receive the same treatment. But they are not treated the same...they are getting discounted transit.

The UPE is advertised as a premium ride for people that are working/living downtown. The users can get some work done with free wifi and be relaxed and ready to work (versus in the back of a taxi on the Gardiner). And they are paying $19.

Employees who use this to commute only pay 1/2 of this (OK....53%). Either through their employer or through the UPE ticketing agreement there should be preference given to the people that pay more (similar to premium vs economy class). This will be critical when shift time is over and inevitably there is a cue for the train (and a lack of seats).

I see no problem with someone who pays more gets a better experience. Happens everywhere including in the airport and even on public transit in Toronto (express bus service).

(I worry both tourists and employees will disrupt the business class experience...but that may lead to a quiet car in the very short term).

I don't think you realize how elitist this sounds.

 

[aquateam]

Many jurisdictions permit codes of conduct outside of normal working hours. For example, if you drive a company truck you cannot speed (monitored by GPS). There are quite often rules on what can be done in a work uniform. If the employee is wearing the patch of the employer their conduct will impact the public's view of the employer.

Where there are restrictions on codes of conduct, most employers require employees NOT to wear uniforms outside of their place of work (including travelling to and from work). In this case, employees after their shift must change before going home.

If their shift is done and they do not receive any perks, by all means they should receive the same treatment. But they are not treated the same...they are getting discounted transit.

The UPE is advertised as a premium ride for people that are working/living downtown. The users can get some work done with free wifi and be relaxed and ready to work (versus in the back of a taxi on the Gardiner). And they are paying $19.

Employees who use this to commute only pay 1/2 of this (OK....53%). Either through their employer or through the UPE ticketing agreement there should be preference given to the people that pay more (similar to premium vs economy class). This will be critical when shift time is over and inevitably there is a cue for the train (and a lack of seats).

I see no problem with someone who pays more gets a better experience. Happens everywhere including in the airport and even on public transit in Toronto (express bus service).

(I worry both tourists and employees will disrupt the business class experience...but that may lead to a quiet car in the very short term).

I'm just going to go ahead and say this is a moot point. Even at the discount employee price of $300/month I doubt many would be using it to commute, and I sincerely doubt that these trains will be full enough that all the seats would be taken.

If they're overwhelmed with riffraff taking up seats they could introduce a First class/business class/economy distinction so CEOs don't have to rub elbows with ground crew workers during the 25 minute ride.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm just going to go ahead and say this is a moot point. Even at the discount employee price of $300/month I doubt many would be using it to commute, and I sincerely doubt that these trains will be full enough that all the seats would be taken.

If they're overwhelmed with riffraff taking up seats they could introduce a First class/business class/economy distinction so CEOs don't have to rub elbows with ground crew workers during the 25 minute ride.

You know, just as obnoxious as the notion that airport employees should be denied seating on a full train is the notion that the only other people using this trains are "CEO's"....the vast majority of business travel from and to this country is by middle-class middle management/sales type folks....and, I would bet, most of the tourist users are not CEOs either.

Can we move away from trying to turn the UPe into some vehicle for class warfare....please.

 

[Jonny5]

If they're overwhelmed with riffraff taking up seats they could introduce a First class/business class/economy distinction so CEOs don't have to rub elbows with ground crew workers during the 25 minute ride.

There is a fisrt class option. Taxis. If you can't afford that, it means you are riff raff.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

There is a fisrt class option. Taxis. If you can't afford that, it means you are riff raff.

Surely you meant to type "private car service" instead of taxi, right?

 

[innsertnamehere]

anyone else notice that the fare gates at Dundas have been partially ripped out? is it possible that they will soon be getting the new fare gates?

 

[nfitz]

I'm just going to go ahead and say this is a moot point. Even at the discount employee price of $300/month I doubt many would be using it to commute, and I sincerely doubt that these trains will be full enough that all the seats would be taken.

Given that we already know that many were using the now-cancelled downtown bus to commute, which I thought had a similar or higher employee discount price, why would we think that there'd be less people using the more frequent and faster train?

 

[NotMathematical]

anyone else notice that the fare gates at Dundas have been partially ripped out? is it possible that they will soon be getting the new fare gates?

Had the same thought as well. July is near as well.

 

[nfitz]

anyone else notice that the fare gates at Dundas have been partially ripped out? is it possible that they will soon be getting the new fare gates?

There's signs up in the station about infrastructure work for installing Presto. There's all sorts of panels missing too recently. Hard to say if it involves new fare gates or not, but presumably there'd likely be a new accessible gate on each side eventually.

I'd assume it's just part of the Presto install for now, similar to what they have already done at some other stations.

 

[aquateam]

You know, just as obnoxious as the notion that airport employees should be denied seating on a full train is the notion that the only other people using this trains are "CEO's"....the vast majority of business travel from and to this country is by middle-class middle management/sales type folks....and, I would bet, most of the tourist users are not CEOs either.

Can we move away from trying to turn the UPe into some vehicle for class warfare....please.

I was being facetious, just poking fun at muller877's post. If you're a CEO you should be traveling from the helipad on your office building to your chartered/private G650 at Billy Bishop airport. That being said, UPX is clearly meant for business/occasional travellers, which is fine, but one could argue that it should be have been designed as part of the public transit service offering within Toronto rather than as an express service. But that is really more a topic for the UPX thread than for the presto thread.

There is a fisrt class option. Taxis. If you can't afford that, it means you are riff raff.

Taxis? Limos only please.

Given that we already know that many were using the now-cancelled downtown bus to commute, which I thought had a similar or higher employee discount price, why would we think that there'd be less people using the more frequent and faster train?

The bus was cancelled for lack of ridership before the UPX will have even opened. I don't think the cannibalized ridership from a bus that ran every 40 minutes is going to pack full an entire train running every 15. The bus was useful because it went directly from the hotels to the airport, which is great for flight attendants on layovers.

I'm not saying that fewer people would be using it. Just not that there would be many, at least not enough to get to standing room only. The flight attendants on layover may take it, but baggage handlers or ground crew employees that have to travel there on a regular basis would probably find it prohibitive. I can't picture many sales for the monthly pass.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think the cannibalized ridership from a bus that ran every 40 minutes is going to pack full an entire train running every 15.

Of course not, but your point was "Even at the discount employee price of $300/month I doubt many would be using it to commute" which is clearly false given we know that a surprising percentage of employees were using the bus!

 

[TOareaFan]

I was being facetious, just poking fun at muller877's post. If you're a CEO you should be traveling from the helipad on your office building to your chartered/private G650 at Billy Bishop airport. That being said, UPX is clearly meant for business/occasional travellers, which is fine, but one could argue that it should be have been designed as part of the public transit service offering within Toronto rather than as an express service. But that is really more a topic for the UPX thread than for the presto thread.

Not a lot of helipads on top of Toronto buildings and you can get in a lot of trouble for using G650 out of or into YTZ

The bus was cancelled for lack of ridership before the UPX will have even opened. I don't think the cannibalized ridership from a bus that ran every 40 minutes is going to pack full an entire train running every 15. The bus was useful because it went directly from the hotels to the airport, which is great for flight attendants on layovers.

I'm not saying that fewer people would be using it. Just not that there would be many, at least not enough to get to standing room only. The flight attendants on layover may take it, but baggage handlers or ground crew employees that have to travel there on a regular basis would probably find it prohibitive. I can't picture many sales for the monthly pass.

From the article you linked.

The bus was always relatively expensive and, yet, 10 years ago carried 400,000 passengers. On a service with 40 minute frequencies.

The precipitous drop to 190k is what led to the cancellation....but the reasons cited for the drop are very interesting and, I would think, positive indicators for UPe. It was simply taking too long to get to the airport. With all of the traffic congestion and construction, their trip times had increased by 30 minutes a ride. Yes, the construction and traffic delays alone were more than the total trip time on UPe. Trip times on the bus had increased to over an hour on weekdays.

So a bus with 40 minute frequencies, and a travel time of 30 - 40 minutes and a fare of $27 was able to attract 400,000 riders 10 years ago.

I think those are real positive indicators for a train with 15 minute frequencies, 25 minute travel time and a $19 presto fare.