vic
Senior Member
Good question. I didn't notice/look. I hope so.
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Good question. I didn't notice/look. I hope so.
johntauren
Active Member
Catenary
Active Member
That's interesting. The machines in Ottawa are identical, but with different programming. They display a PRESTO logo rather than the green arrow when waiting for a tap. When tapped, they display the balance remaining and time remaining on transfer, or the monthly pass end date. The issue is that the font that they use for this is maybe 14 point, which is uselessly small.
nfitz
Superstar
Good!
This means people won't try and read the display instead of walking through. They can check their card online or at a fare checker where they aren't blocking the turnstile.
vic
Senior Member
I checked on my way home. No. Oooops.
1overcosc
Active Member
Kingston is even smaller than Guelph and adopted a farecard system in 2008 and it's worked well.
ehlow
Senior Member
I've been trying to learn a bit about Presto and how to use it.
So, one of the benefits of a unified fare system would be you should be able to do regional trips across transit systems fairly easily right?
One of the things I'm worried about is, could it be a bit confusing on whether you need to tap getting off the vehicle?
Example: someone living in Brampton wants to see some outdoor concert at Yonge & Dundas square. They take a Brampton transit bus to the GO station in Brampton, takes GO down to Union, than takes the TTC subway from Union to Dundas.
Three different systems, a "regional" trip, hopefully with fare integration there's a discount. Does the user need to know the rules of Presto for each of the systems? It seems that some systems you tap on but don't need to tap off, others you do, how do you know whether you need to or not?
Or is GO the only time you need to tap off, whereas all the municipal systems you don't need to?
Also, how do different systems work in terms of transferring? Do you need to tap again when transferring? If the person switches from the subway to the streetcar, do they need to tap again on the streetcar? What if the person transfers in a fare-paid zone like a bus bay at Eglinton, do they need to tap again?
So, one of the benefits of a unified fare system would be you should be able to do regional trips across transit systems fairly easily right?
One of the things I'm worried about is, could it be a bit confusing on whether you need to tap getting off the vehicle?
Example: someone living in Brampton wants to see some outdoor concert at Yonge & Dundas square. They take a Brampton transit bus to the GO station in Brampton, takes GO down to Union, than takes the TTC subway from Union to Dundas.
Three different systems, a "regional" trip, hopefully with fare integration there's a discount. Does the user need to know the rules of Presto for each of the systems? It seems that some systems you tap on but don't need to tap off, others you do, how do you know whether you need to or not?
Or is GO the only time you need to tap off, whereas all the municipal systems you don't need to?
Also, how do different systems work in terms of transferring? Do you need to tap again when transferring? If the person switches from the subway to the streetcar, do they need to tap again on the streetcar? What if the person transfers in a fare-paid zone like a bus bay at Eglinton, do they need to tap again?
johntauren
Active Member
It already works seamlessly between systems outside of Toronto, with or without Presto.
2-hour transfer window for any local system outside of Toronto (not GO) on the same fare, having to tap on entering each bus.
GO works on distance-based fares, so you tap on and then off when you leave, no other system is like that.
GO co-fare when using Presto reduces the local fare to $0.75 (not applicable to TTC)
As for how it will work with TTC, who knows at this point. They're really being stubborn with their slow implementation.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
TOareaFan
Superstar
It really is not that hard. If the fair you pay is flat you only need to tap on (as it does not matter how far you go you are paying the same) if, however, you pay a different fare depending on how far you travel then you tap on and off.
Trip you describe tap on to BT.....no need to tap off.....tap on and off of GO.....tap on to TTC.....no need to tap off.
Rider pays a discounted fare on BT....full Presto fare on GO......equivalent to token fare on TTC.
crs1026
Superstar
I do a fair bit of multi-property tripping between GO, Mississauga, Brampton, and TTC and I have been very impressed with how reliably Presto figures out the trip.
The one interesting thing is what happens at Union if you transfer between GO services. The two-hour transfer policy tends to kick in, even if you are making a return trip....have had short meetings downtown that were treated as a transfer and not two trips. I pointed this out and the reply was, while it's an anomaly to how the fare is supposed to work, but the only way an automated system can handle it.
- Paul
The one interesting thing is what happens at Union if you transfer between GO services. The two-hour transfer policy tends to kick in, even if you are making a return trip....have had short meetings downtown that were treated as a transfer and not two trips. I pointed this out and the reply was, while it's an anomaly to how the fare is supposed to work, but the only way an automated system can handle it.
- Paul
nfitz
Superstar
Bingo! You've got it.
There's some odd stuff with York Region trips north of King Road, that I don't pretend to understand - but it's all when you tap on not off I think. But the tap off is just GO ... and the Union-Pearson train.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Chalk it up as an added bonus for using Presto!
nfitz
Superstar
Yes. Though it's 3 hours now.
If you start your return GO trip (or any other trip) by tapping in less than 3 hours after you initially tapped in for a previous trip, then you pay a very small amount for your return trip - depending on where you go.
The online fare calculator is set up correctly to handle this - http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/fares/farecalculator.aspx
If you put the same stop as your start and end point. And put (for example) Union Station as the transfer point, it will show you the total amount for the return trip (if you tap on within 3 hours to start going home).
For example, Long Branch - Union. $5.04 (with Presto) one-way. Long Branch-Long Branch (change in Union) is $5.31.
(assuming you have no default trip). When you first tap on at Long Branch it charges you $5.30. Then when you tap off at Union it refunds $0.26. When you tap back on an hour or so later at Union it charges another $5.30. But when you finally tap off at Long Branch it refunds $5.03.
Interestingly, you can also see using the fare calculator different fares if you tap off at Union, and then tap back on again when you change trains.
So a single trip from Pickering to Union (with Presto) is $7.07. Pickering to Port Credit is $10.08. Pickering to Port Credit, transferring at Union is $8.01.
Presto and GO don't seem to be talking about that one very loudly!
ehlow
Senior Member
Thanks guys.
I wonder what happens when people use it wrong:
Say you're on the new streetcar and you tap on, then tap off. You aren't supposed to tap off right? Does it charge you a 2nd time when you're tapping off? Is there any time-related limit on the TTC?
What if you're on the GO train, tap on when you get on. Then you get off at Union, but forget to tap off. Then you tap on to get into the subway station. Does that last tap both count as a tap off of GO and a tap on for TTC? Or I guess it's known as a TTC presto machine so it only counts as a TTC fare and you get charged extra for the GO trip since you forgot to tap off?
Also, I understand now that for GO and UPX you need to tap off, other things you don't. However, is there any indication or reminder for a tourist or for people who don't know the given transit system whether you need to tap off?
I guess with the TTC it should be pretty clear you don't need to tap off at the subway stations since there will only be presto machines for the entry gates. However on buses or streetcars it might not be clear whether you need to tap off or not. Although, I guess if you see everyone else getting off without tapping you wouldn't either.
I wonder what happens when people use it wrong:
Say you're on the new streetcar and you tap on, then tap off. You aren't supposed to tap off right? Does it charge you a 2nd time when you're tapping off? Is there any time-related limit on the TTC?
What if you're on the GO train, tap on when you get on. Then you get off at Union, but forget to tap off. Then you tap on to get into the subway station. Does that last tap both count as a tap off of GO and a tap on for TTC? Or I guess it's known as a TTC presto machine so it only counts as a TTC fare and you get charged extra for the GO trip since you forgot to tap off?
Also, I understand now that for GO and UPX you need to tap off, other things you don't. However, is there any indication or reminder for a tourist or for people who don't know the given transit system whether you need to tap off?
I guess with the TTC it should be pretty clear you don't need to tap off at the subway stations since there will only be presto machines for the entry gates. However on buses or streetcars it might not be clear whether you need to tap off or not. Although, I guess if you see everyone else getting off without tapping you wouldn't either.