PL1
Active Member
Might also be a function of the age of the person. When I was a kid, summer vacation was a long time. Now (mid 40s) 2 years doesn't seem that long.
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Might also be a function of the age of the person. When I was a kid, summer vacation was a long time. Now (mid 40s) 2 years doesn't seem that long.
Napoleon
Active Member
Well, once buses are converted that is.
NotMathematical
Active Member
Just a few more days. Saw a reader switched on but not yet functional. Can't wait to stop waiting for an LRV in this cold.
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pstogios
Senior Member
I agree! It will be awesome to not have to rely on the new streetcars because of Presto.
However, don't forget that November has 30 days--so "just a few more days" might not actually happen. It's the TTC we're talking about here.
nfitz
Superstar
TTC or Presto?
I've already pointed in a different thread that with the Presto website being down tonight, that's a good sign there's a software change going through, which may be to support things like the the readers on the streetcars.
I've already pointed in a different thread that with the Presto website being down tonight, that's a good sign there's a software change going through, which may be to support things like the the readers on the streetcars.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
do they usually shutdown the site every time new readers come online?
nfitz
Superstar
Readers? I suspect it's the transfer table that's killing them ... but I'm only guessing.
Bojaxs
Active Member
Aside from Ottawa, has there been any mention of municipalities outside the GTHA picking up Presto?
Napoleon
Active Member
There's still been zero discussion of how transfers will work. The TTC is going to have to spend some time educating riders on this.
Megaton327
Senior Member
This is, of course, conjecture, but I thought the consensus is that transfers as they presently exist will not be integrated into Presto on the TTC--at least, not this first streetcar-only wave. What people on here have generally been saying (and it certainly seems like the most logical option) is that if you need to transfer you board the CLRV/ALRV at the front doors, tap your card, and with the visual/audible cues from the machine that you've paid you ask the driver for a paper transfer; if you don't need one, you can board and tap at the rear doors, and fare inspectors have devices for checking POP on Presto cards. Transfers will almost certainly be implemented with the full rollout by the end of 2016, and of course we may see a switch to 2-hour transfers at that point to make it far easier for Presto to handle them.
I'd welcome information either to the contrary or confirming that, but it certainly seems like the most likely option for this 1-year period. It's in line with the current LFLRV transfer solution as well. Guess we'll see soon since Brad said the streetcars currently equipped will have their readers go live within the next month--I have also seen one recently with the reader turned on, but out of service, lit up red. Haven't seen many pics of that before so it looks like, to my great disbelief, they might actually go live at the start rather than the very end of November.
Napoleon
Active Member
That's certainly the easiest option, although it doesn't help much with all-door-boarding. As of right now, I think all the subway stations that are intersected by streetcars either have loops in the fare-paid zone (e.g., Bathurst, Spadina, Dundas West, etc.) or have readers already installed (e.g., the stops in the U of the YUS line). So, it would be possible to implement a limited set of transfer rules. Quite easy if it's just streetcar to subway or vice-versa, but a bit more complicated if it's streetcar to subway to streetcar. Still not too complicated, as I think all the transfers on the Bloor line at least are in fare-paid loops.
Megaton327
Senior Member
Quick update on CLRV/ALRV presto deployment per Brad Ross on twitter--on Sept 28 2015 he had tweeted, regarding the CLRVs/ALRVs currently equipped with inactive presto readers, "Will make those on cars today active in November- entire fleet end of year", i.e. while the deadline for full streetcar deployment is Dec 31, since it is a gradual rollout, they will flip the switch on those streetcars which happen to have them now sometime this month. I was looking around on twitter and saw somebody asked him when this month we can expect that and he indicated that plan might no longer be in effect. Now saying "Not all cars have readers yet, so a decision to be made about when to activate those that do. End of year is firm", and with regards to his earlier tweet saying it actually would hpapen, "We may still, I just don't have a date." I'm reading between the lines here but I feel that somebody at the TTC is sounding the alarm that "Oh no, we can't turn on Presto on SOME streetcars when not all of them have it! It has to be after ALL of them have it, or customers will be horribly confused and the whole world will explode!" while forgetting that this has been the case since November 2014 when the LFLRVs got Presto. In fact, it would be much better, right now a Presto user can ride a total of 10 possible LFLRVs on just 509/510, even though only 6-8 are usually actually in service at most, and none are on any other lines; if they go ahead with the partial activation, many lines will have the majority of their streetcars accepting it--anecdotally, on the 509/510, I would say about 20% of the cars had the readers a month or two back, and it is now easily at 80% or more. I'm sure many others here can commiserate with the annoyance of seeing two perfectly good Presto readers on a streetcar--recently, even turned on but lit up red for out of service--and being unable to use them just because 20% of the cars lack them. Hopefully they do decide to go forward with this. Most of the GTHA fully implemented Presto on every single vehicle/station a couple of years ago--it is, in my opinion, shameful that the TTC is lagging so incredibly far behind, and at this point, every day that an individual point of fare payment goes without Presto is inexcusable; if they can push forward 80% of CLRVs/ALRVs by a month and a half, they should bloody do it.
As for transfers:
I don't necessarily think it would be that simple, but even if so, a major case that wouldn't be covered by that solution of instituting a limited transfer table is buses. Lots of streetcars and bus routes intersect--wellesley, sherbourne, parliament, bay, dufferin...and those are just the downtown-ish ones; once you get out west on the 501, or east on the 506 or 501, and all along the 512's route, there are many more. Given that scenario, I don't think that any solution other than the paper transfer makes sense for this 1-year period before buses have readers. Sure, they could also implement a limited table for streetcar-to-subway transfers on the downtown U, but if they're going with the "driver sees you tap, get a paper transfer" system for bus connections I doubt they'll come up with two overlapping solutions. I agree that the board at front/get a transfer solution isn't pretty, but proportionally to length it's not that different from the LFLRVs where there are only 2 transfer machines and a Presto user boarding at the frontmost or rearmost doors must make their way to the 2nd or 4th sections, or be sure to get on there in the first place. And much like the LFLRVs those not needing transfers still have the option to board at another door, so it's not 100% of Presto users who need to board at the front, even, you still get maybe like a 2/3 vs 1/3 front door-back door split which is better than nothing, and again, that's just for presto.
And the key thing here, at the end of the day, is this is a 1-year solution--no need for it to be a perfectly functional, optimal, attractive solution, as long as it works reasonably well. By December 31st 2015 the streetcars will all be POP+presto at all doors, with limited subway availability and none on buses; 1 year later on Dec 31 2016, the entire system, all buses+streetcars+subway stations+future LRT lines will be fully presto enabled. Anywhere between that first day of full presto use and maybe a few months beyond, when tickets/tokens/metropasses are phased out, they will obviously have to implement a full transfer table for presto, or switch to a simple 2-hour free transfer. So whatever we go with now for the CLRVs/ALRVs will cease to be relevant in about 1 year, as will the double-tap transfer process for Presto on the LFLRVs (which was of course an issue for longer, since November 2014).
As for transfers:
I don't necessarily think it would be that simple, but even if so, a major case that wouldn't be covered by that solution of instituting a limited transfer table is buses. Lots of streetcars and bus routes intersect--wellesley, sherbourne, parliament, bay, dufferin...and those are just the downtown-ish ones; once you get out west on the 501, or east on the 506 or 501, and all along the 512's route, there are many more. Given that scenario, I don't think that any solution other than the paper transfer makes sense for this 1-year period before buses have readers. Sure, they could also implement a limited table for streetcar-to-subway transfers on the downtown U, but if they're going with the "driver sees you tap, get a paper transfer" system for bus connections I doubt they'll come up with two overlapping solutions. I agree that the board at front/get a transfer solution isn't pretty, but proportionally to length it's not that different from the LFLRVs where there are only 2 transfer machines and a Presto user boarding at the frontmost or rearmost doors must make their way to the 2nd or 4th sections, or be sure to get on there in the first place. And much like the LFLRVs those not needing transfers still have the option to board at another door, so it's not 100% of Presto users who need to board at the front, even, you still get maybe like a 2/3 vs 1/3 front door-back door split which is better than nothing, and again, that's just for presto.
And the key thing here, at the end of the day, is this is a 1-year solution--no need for it to be a perfectly functional, optimal, attractive solution, as long as it works reasonably well. By December 31st 2015 the streetcars will all be POP+presto at all doors, with limited subway availability and none on buses; 1 year later on Dec 31 2016, the entire system, all buses+streetcars+subway stations+future LRT lines will be fully presto enabled. Anywhere between that first day of full presto use and maybe a few months beyond, when tickets/tokens/metropasses are phased out, they will obviously have to implement a full transfer table for presto, or switch to a simple 2-hour free transfer. So whatever we go with now for the CLRVs/ALRVs will cease to be relevant in about 1 year, as will the double-tap transfer process for Presto on the LFLRVs (which was of course an issue for longer, since November 2014).
nfitz
Superstar
Given we are only about 7-8 weeks from full Presto deployment on streetcars, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wait and do them all at once.
Or else, someone will be making complaints to them that they are standing on Spadina and 3 streetcars in a row passed without a Presto Reader. Or that the Presto reader hasn't been activated yet, despite other CLRVs are turned on.
Or else, someone will be making complaints to them that they are standing on Spadina and 3 streetcars in a row passed without a Presto Reader. Or that the Presto reader hasn't been activated yet, despite other CLRVs are turned on.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
As opposed to standing on Spadina now, waiting as 3 streetcars in a row pass without a Presto reader? Unless that was a stab at someone who was complaining about that... in which case,
Why does Toronto have to make everything so difficult? Just activate the ones that are there now. No biggie.