[Zach6668]

I said this in another thread, but with POP I fully intend to treat my Presto fare as a two hour transfer. If caught, I will fight it and argue that I paid the exact same fare as those along St. Clair did, and they get a two hour transfer despite being within the same fare zone. Sure it is a pilot project, but seeing as this project has been going on for over a decade now, I would hope they could counter my defence by providing enough research to crash a NASA supercomputer, and explain what new data they hope to gain by continuing said pilot. Otherwise a bit of legalese may convince a judge that the TTC is not conducting a proper pilot project, and that being within the same fare zone, St. Clair's transfer rules apply to all regular TTC routes in Toronto proper.

For whatever it's worth, Brad Ross told me on Twitter that the St. Clair "pilot" was ending with the POP/Presto launch. Whether this is actually true is another matter.

 

[nfitz]

For whatever it's worth, Brad Ross told me on Twitter that the St. Clair "pilot" was ending with the POP/Presto launch. Whether this is actually true is another matter.

We'll see when (if!) the implement the new transfer rules in mid-January.

Either way, as one is required to tap on, when entering the vehicle (unless in a fare-paid area), I don't see how one is going to game the system, without simply breaking the rules. There's no evidence that Presto users on 512 are being treated any differently than any other route.

 

[MetroMan]

Something was wrong with PRESTO today on my streetcar ride along King. It kept getting declined even though I have funds on it (auto-reload enabled). I went from Spadina to Yonge looking at my balance on my phone and determining that it had money. I tried multiple times along the way and it just never accepted the card. I was getting worried that fare inspectors would board and I'd be screwed so I got off and walked the rest of the way.

While looking on my account and adding even more money on to the card just to make sure, I realized that it's not a live balance. It takes 24 hours to be loaded on to the card. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I don't need a ride tomorrow, I'm on the streetcar now.

 

[PinkLucy]

Mine auto reloaded and I was able to use it same day in December .... however, there was still enough on it to pay the fare. I have it set to reload at $5 so I've always got a fare available.

 

[Megaton327]

Indeed--if you "don't need a ride tomorrow" and need the balance now, you can either use autoload or the self-serve reload kiosks now in many subway stations and, I believe, planned to be in all of them. Also, frankly, it's 24 hours, not 3 years--it's not that hard to plan your travels a day in ahead and load early.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Now if they paid us interest on the unused balance...

...what's 1% on $5 for a single day? (0000.01¢)

...times how many riders in single day? (1,659,000 x .01¢ = $227.26). Ho hum. Nothing to worry, except if I'm the programmer.

 

[rbt]

Something was wrong with PRESTO today on my streetcar ride along King. It kept getting declined even though I have funds on it (auto-reload enabled). I went from Spadina to Yonge looking at my balance on my phone and determining that it had money.

This probably doesn't fit your case but if you took GO and only made 1-tap without a default trip set (failed to tap-out), then autoload can fail on a negative balance card. You need to give cash to a customer service agent who will spent some time struggling to add it to the card manually.

The auto tap-out adjustment event fails to add funds via autoload when needed.

 

[JamesKoole]

Here's an example of why 2-hour timed transfers would be far easier to implement over all the trip-based logic required. My last trip to work on the TTC looked like this:

Date/Time Time Service Provider Location Name Transaction Type Amount Balance Loyalty Month Loyalty Trip Number Loyalty Step Loyalty Discount
01/07/2016 07:46 AM Toronto Transit Commission 0 e-Purse Fare Payment $2.90 $50.50 0 0 $0.00

The "0" after Commission is the location. Usually that would be "King St East At Ontario St" except in this case, apparently the GPS on the streetcar was dead and so no location was stored. On a timed transfer, that would be no issue. It's the start of a 2-hour window. On the trip-based implementation, it's a different story.

I really hope the TTC just makes the switch to 2-hour time-based across the entire system.

 

[Napoleon]

Here's an example of why 2-hour timed transfers would be far easier to implement over all the trip-based logic required. My last trip to work on the TTC looked like this:

Date/Time Time Service Provider Location Name Transaction Type Amount Balance Loyalty Month Loyalty Trip Number Loyalty Step Loyalty Discount
01/07/2016 07:46 AM Toronto Transit Commission 0 e-Purse Fare Payment $2.90 $50.50 0 0 $0.00

The "0" after Commission is the location. Usually that would be "King St East At Ontario St" except in this case, apparently the GPS on the streetcar was dead and so no location was stored. On a timed transfer, that would be no issue. It's the start of a 2-hour window. On the trip-based implementation, it's a different story.

I really hope the TTC just makes the switch to 2-hour time-based across the entire system.

I've noticed this problem with the new streetcars sometimes when the transfers get printed. A few times the location was wrong, and once even the direction of travel was wrong. It will be worth checking Presto transaction histories carefully once the new transfer table goes live.

 

[johntauren]

Here's an example of why 2-hour timed transfers would be far easier to implement over all the trip-based logic required. My last trip to work on the TTC looked like this:

Date/Time Time Service Provider Location Name Transaction Type Amount Balance Loyalty Month Loyalty Trip Number Loyalty Step Loyalty Discount
01/07/2016 07:46 AM Toronto Transit Commission 0 e-Purse Fare Payment $2.90 $50.50 0 0 $0.00

The "0" after Commission is the location. Usually that would be "King St East At Ontario St" except in this case, apparently the GPS on the streetcar was dead and so no location was stored. On a timed transfer, that would be no issue. It's the start of a 2-hour window. On the trip-based implementation, it's a different story.

I really hope the TTC just makes the switch to 2-hour time-based across the entire system.

Yeah, I honestly have no idea how they plan to enact such a policy.
Just briefly glancing at my history, it's showing some bizarre transfers that I definitely did not do that don't make much sense - they're not in Toronto, but they would definitely cause a problem under TTC's transfer rules.

 

[PinkLucy]

I've noticed this problem with the new streetcars sometimes when the transfers get printed. A few times the location was wrong, and once even the direction of travel was wrong. It will be worth checking Presto transaction histories carefully once the new transfer table goes live.

Even with your online history it's confusing; in the example above, it shows that I got on at Fleet & Bathurst -- but was I on the 509 or the 511? Was I going east or west or north? No way to tell.

 

[BMO]

Something was wrong with PRESTO today on my streetcar ride along King. It kept getting declined even though I have funds on it (auto-reload enabled). I went from Spadina to Yonge looking at my balance on my phone and determining that it had money. I tried multiple times along the way and it just never accepted the card. I was getting worried that fare inspectors would board and I'd be screwed so I got off and walked the rest of the way.

While looking on my account and adding even more money on to the card just to make sure, I realized that it's not a live balance. It takes 24 hours to be loaded on to the card. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I don't need a ride tomorrow, I'm on the streetcar now.

You must be new to the beautiful nuances of PRESTO. This is one of the most annoying things, but it's unfortunately a necessity, especially on streetcars and buses because they aren't connected to the PRESTO network to get the updated list of which cards have money, etc. So essentially, you've put money on your card online, but your physical card hasn't actually received the data that says "hey I have X amount of dollars". So you either have to tap onto a subway station that is directly connected to the PRESTO network or wait a day or hours before the PRESTO readers on the buses and streetcars are updated at the bus depot before or after the shift. Once the readers are update they get the information from the PRESTO network saying that if the reader comes in contact with your card it is to upload the online value onto your card and then deduct the fare. All subsequent readers will then know you have had your value loaded onto the card and so you won't get extra money loaded onto it and they will just deduct the money from the physical card.

It's a mouthfull, but we would need to have every single Streetcar and bus wirelessly continually connected to the PRESTO network to get near-instant online money loading to be usable right away.

TIP: I think if you get your money loaded at a GO cashier in Union, or at one of the self loaders I believe you can tap your card to their machines and the value gets instantly added to your card without needing to wait for a certain period of time before accessing it.

 

[bennessb]

So you either have to tap onto a subway station that is directly connected to the PRESTO network or wait a day or hours before the PRESTO readers on the buses and streetcars are updated at the bus depot before or after the shift.

So as a streetcar rider with autoload set up, how should I set my minimum balance to deal with this? I usually take it twice a day, so should I make sure I have two fares on the card when autoload is triggered? I don't know if I'm phrasing this question well, but I'd like to avoid the presto equivalent of nsf.

 

[nfitz]

So as a streetcar rider with autoload set up, how should I set my minimum balance to deal with this? I usually take it twice a day, so should I make sure I have two fares on the card when autoload is triggered? I don't know if I'm phrasing this question well, but I'd like to avoid the presto equivalent of nsf.

It shouldn't make a difference, as the autoreloaded amount is immediately available.

However, I'm paranoid, so I keep it at $20, so if or some reason it does fail, I've got time to sort out.

 

[bennessb]

It shouldn't make a difference, as the autoreloaded amount is immediately available.

That's definitely been my experience with GO, but this thread is making me paranoid about TTC use.