[steveintoronto]

Hamilton baulking at Presto fees; can't blame them as 16% is crazy high.

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news-st...trolinx-offer-for-using-presto-unacceptable-/

Excellent heads-up, just reading article now.

[...]
City Manager Chris Murray said Metrolinx’s last offer to Hamilton was not “acceptable” and he has asked to meet with Transportation Minister Steve Del Duca over the issue. “(Staff) is not comfortable making a recommendation (to council),” said Murray. Mountain councillor Terry Whitehead said the proposed 10-year operating agreement with Metrolinx could mean an increase from about 2.5 per cent to 16 per cent to the city. Whitehead said it could add an additional $4 million to the city’s budget.
[...]
Mayor Fred Eisenberger...agreed with Murray the final offer issued by Metrolinx was “unacceptable.” He said Metrolinx has not delivered as promised on programs to Hamilton.
[...]
As its negotiations continue, Ottawa is looking at taking legal action against Metrolinx over how its operation agreement has been presented.
[...]
Hamilton residents have been slow to use the Presto card due to what transit staff has called an “unreliable system.” Only about seven per cent of HSR rides use Presto, compared to 60 per cent for the rest of the province. The city spent $6.5 million over a number of years to install the Presto machines on all HSR buses. Riders have only limited locations, Hunter Street GO station, city hall and Dundas municipal centre, and all Fortinos across the city.]

16% is a whopping amount.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Major problems last night with Presto. I paid my fare on a TTC bus via Presto, but the driver was insistent that I did not pay my fare. I asked him for a transfer, and he told me that if I really paid my fare, I should have no problem getting into the subway station at the end of the route. Obviously an embarrassing situation to be accused of not paying your fare.

When I get to the subway station, Presto charged me another $2.90. I don't think that TTC has guaranteed bus/subway transfers work with with Presto, but i will still be calling them for a refund.

Are TTC drivers not notified when customers pay a fare? Do they have no way of verifying who paid?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why isn't there a PRESTO Christmas card promotion to sell PRESTO cards to your loved ones for the Christmas stockings? They should be promoting the move to the PRESTO card so that our loved ones would have a PRESTO card ready to use.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

>Hamilton residents have been slow to use the Presto card due to what transit staff has called an “unreliable system.” Only about seven per cent of HSR rides use Presto, compared to 60 per cent for the rest of the province.

Why hasn't Hamilton completely switched to Presto, like TTC is planning?

 

[amnesiajune]

I paid my fare on a TTC bus via Presto, but the driver was insistent that I did not pay my fare. I asked him for a transfer, and he told me that if I really paid my fare, I should have no problem getting into the subway station at the end of the route. When I get to the subway station, Presto charged me another $2.90.

I've never had a problem with bus-to-subway transfers, even where I shouldn't have gotten one. I think the one limitation is that there have to be valid connections requiring a transfer to the station. At a station where every bus/streetcar goes into the fare-paid area (Spadina or Bathurst, for example), I think it's smart enough to know that you aren't transferring.

Why isn't there a PRESTO Christmas card promotion to sell PRESTO cards to your loved ones for the Christmas stockings?

Because if you're going to give someone a shitty gift, you can already pull it out of your behind for free.

 

[PinkLucy]

Major problems last night with Presto. I paid my fare on a TTC bus via Presto, but the driver was insistent that I did not pay my fare. I asked him for a transfer, and he told me that if I really paid my fare, I should have no problem getting into the subway station at the end of the route. Obviously an embarrassing situation to be accused of not paying your fare.

When I get to the subway station, Presto charged me another $2.90. I don't think that TTC has guaranteed bus/subway transfers work with with Presto, but i will still be calling them for a refund.

Are TTC drivers not notified when customers pay a fare? Do they have no way of verifying who paid?

So were you actually charged twice? (just wondering if the Presto reader didn't actually record the first tap in the bus) If so, call Presto to get a refund.

As for the embarrassment factor, fare inspectors can check your card to see if you actually paid. I don't think the drivers have the machine to do so.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So were you actually charged twice? (just wondering if the Presto reader didn't actually record the first tap in the bus) If so, call Presto to get a refund.

Yup I was. I was charged at 11:21 on the bus, and then another $2.90 at 11:38 when I transferred to subway.

As for the embarrassment factor, fare inspectors can check your card to see if you actually paid. I don't think the drivers have the machine to do so.

I totally understand why he thought I didn't pay my fare. It was a large crowd of people coming onto the bus, with multiple people reaching through the crowd to tap their Presto cards. It could be hard to see who was tapping in that crowd. But drivers really should have a way to verify who paid their fares, and if not then they should just not say anything. It was very embarsssing to have the driver call me out in front of the whole bus for allegedly not paying my fare.

 

[nfitz]

Yup I was. I was charged at 11:21 on the bus, and then another $2.90 at 11:38 when I transferred to subway.

That's odd ... which bus to which subway?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's odd ... which bus to which subway?

The 72 Pape southbound to Union Station.

 

[amnesiajune]

The 72 Pape southbound to Union Station.

Reach out to the TTC via Twitter and email. They might have the Presto system incorrectly programmed to reject surface-to-subway transfers at Union.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

System implementation is approaching an important milestone. Once new fare gates are installed and opened at Wilson, Rosedale and Eglinton, you will be able to use Presto at any subway station or on any surface route west of Yonge.

 

[PL1]

Yup I was. I was charged at 11:21 on the bus, and then another $2.90 at 11:38 when I transferred to subway.

It was very embarsssing to have the driver call me out in front of the whole bus for allegedly not paying my fare.

If you had tried to retap on the bus (when the drive accused you of not tapping), would the Presto machine not have indicated that you had already paid?

Just curious for the future. I'm reading this while sipping coffee on a Sunday morning, not during a commute on a packed bus!

 

[steveintoronto]

If you had tried to retap on the bus (when the drive accused you of not tapping), would the Presto machine not have indicated that you had already paid?

It's a very good question. I haven't knowingly had this happen on the TTC readers (they might not have the capacity to indicate a faulty transaction) but I've had it happen on GO bus and station readers.

In the latter instance, at the GO Presto machine at the top of the ramp from the Skywalk to the Union UPX station, I've had repeated instances where the machine has indicated green and yellow at the same time, and squawked, not beeped...which always leaves me puzzled. So last time I tried to re-tap, and absolutely nothing happened, only to find later that they had dinged me for a "missed tap off" or "missed tap on". It's happened a number of times. Similar has happened on GO buses, where I thought there wasn't a proper tap-on, only for the driver to assure me it was, and then to get dinged yet again.

I've searched this on-line, and it appears there's a litany of these instances. Some would claim "Oh well, most of them are accurate". Try that attitude with your bank card!

The bottom line is that many of the commenters having problems with their Presto transactions do as I do myself often: Just buy a paper ticket with the card. Sometimes, when you have more important things on your mind, screw the 'savings and convenience', just give me a ticket so I don't have to think about this again. One shouldn't have to always be on edge to deal with a gaffe prone system.

Nobody seems to know how many TTC Presto card readers are failing
The troubled rollout of the province's transit fare card continues to be hobbled.

Metrolinx says TTC's streetcar system poses "unique challenges" for Presto card readers, including vibrations.

By: Torstar News Service Published on Mon Sep 26 2016
The TTC’s Presto problems are more widespread than previously thought.

The transit agency has stated publicly that fewer than one per cent of its new Presto fare card readers are out of service at any given time. But an audit the TTC conducted last week revealed that at least five to six per cent of the devices on its streetcar fleet aren’t working, and the real number could be higher.

According to TTC chief customer officer Chris Upfold, it’s difficult to know how many devices are misfiring, because the cellular system that is supposed to automatically detect when they malfunction isn’t working properly.

“Frankly, it might be higher (than five to six per cent). I wouldn’t be surprised if it was,” Upfold said in an interview.

Because the automatic detection system isn’t always reliable, the TTC had workers check the readers in person last week, and plans to test readers on buses as well. According to Upfold, it’s not clear what’s wrong with the devices, which allow customers to pay their fare by tapping a prepaid card. But he said it’s probably a software problem. [...]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2016/09/26/ttc-presto-card-reader-failures-.html

 

[amnesiajune]

If you had tried to retap on the bus (when the drive accused you of not tapping), would the Presto machine not have indicated that you had already paid?

I'm not sure how it works on Go Transit buses. On the other transit systems, time-based transfers are used so you wouldn't be charged a second fare until two hours have passed. On the TTC, since time-based transfers are apparently way too complicated, the machine locks you out for 90 minutes on the bus and 2 minutes at subway stations. You can't re-tap the same card, even if you take the same bus back in the opposite direction.

 

[steveintoronto]

I've just been re-reading a lot of the Presto info on using the card, some of it is very ambiguous. Won't list them all right now, but this is revealing:

[For commuters looking for a faster way to get downtown from Bloor and Weston stations, the new fare structure offers prices that match GO Transit fares.]
https://www.prestocard.ca/en/about/paying-for-transit

Consider that wording very carefully. This was debated here and elsewhere almost a year ago, and yet this is currently still up at the Presto site linked prior:
"prices that match GO Transit fares". Note they don't state that the "fare" is integrated, just the price of that fare is matched if starting your trip between those starts and destinations, GO vs UPX. No mention of your fare being good for 'booking through' on UPX, just that if you ride from, say, Union to Bloor, the cost of that fare is the same as if you took the GO train between the same points. No transfer from GO is recognized onto UPX according to this missive! (I get contrary and contradictory info from other sources)

This may still be the basis of my continuing issue with the GO Presto machine on the Union UPX platform, and that's the basis of the advice of one GO service rep to use the GO Presto machines downstairs, or not tap off and on during the transfer from GO train at Union to UPX, and just tap off at the GO Presto machine at Bloor. That has solved the problem, but then renders getting a refund on-line for a late train void. In those instances, phoning it becomes necessary.

It shouldn't be this way! How many times does a glitch have to repeat itself being reported for it to be addressed?