crs1026
Superstar
Yes, we tapped on at Union and boarded the 510 streetcar there, so the initial tap on was pegged as Union.
- Paul
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Yes, we tapped on at Union and boarded the 510 streetcar there, so the initial tap on was pegged as Union.
- Paul
amnesiajune
Senior Member
The TTC estimated a couple of years ago that the net cost would be $20 million, accounting for lost fares that would become transfers and new passengers who take transit because of the free return trip.
muller877
Senior Member
The real problem with the TTC is not the growth in the trips (2013 to 2015 it grew by 10%) but the revenue passengers (2013 to 2015 it grew by 2%). Basically we paid for the same number fares but took 250,000 trips more per day over just a 2 year period.
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Operating_Statistics/2015/Section_One.jsp
We are using way too many transfers and it's all for free. And even worse the majority of these additional trips were on buses (not the subway) which are the most expensive trips.
Presto can help here. Why don't we charge $0.25 per transfer? Covers the cost of using Presto, discourage 1 stop rides to the subway where there are capacity constraints, etc. Metropass is NOT excluded. They pay a nominal $0.25 per transfer as well
1 million per day of transfers. x 365 x $0.25 = $91M. Covers the added cost of the 2 hour transfer option. And reduces next year's increase in fees.
(and for the record I would have to pay an extra $0.50 per day...one to and one from work)
DSC
Superstar
I think their estimate was pulled from the air; yes they MIGHT lose SOME revenue but how much time/money are they spending programing PRESTO with strange Rules and then paying staff to handle errors and refunds. (To say nothing of pissing off their customers.) If they get more people taking trips because people can get a free return this is NOT lost revenue - they never had this revenue in the first place.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
If a transfer price is added, then the base fare should be lowered. Since the current fare is $3.00, the fare should go down by at least $0.05 to $2.95 or maybe even $0.25 to $2.75.
People who take triple transfers will be mad about the extra fare they have to pay though.
What is the average number of transfers though? Is is more or less than 2?
It doesn't always know. It gets it wrong often.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
I've already started using the TTC more knowing that I can make a roundtrip on the subway on one fare simply by boarding my return trip on a bus one stop from a subway station (assuming the bus goes into the station).
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NotMathematical
Active Member
WE’RE UPGRADING OUR TICKET VENDING MACHINES
- We’re upgrading our ticket vending machines to make using PRESTO even easier
- Some of our ticket vending machines will be upgraded so you can instantly add value to your PRESTO card, check account information and at select locations, purchase a new PRESTO card.
- Select machines at Ajax GO Station, Union Station (UP Express), Toronto Pearson Airport, Union Station York Concourse, Oakville GO Station, Union Station Bus Terminal and Square One Bus Terminal will be upgraded with PRESTO functions, with more to follow later this year.
Angusgor
New Member
Good. the GO TVMs are garbage. No reason why it should take half a minute to search for a route.
WillTo
Senior Member
There are some people who would take the TTC more if the free return transfer were included.
For instance I walk to get my groceries, but have considered getting on the bus to go to a cheaper store.
But it's not worth the time, hassle and hard to save $6 (on groceries) on one trip.
$3 I could probably do it.
For instance I walk to get my groceries, but have considered getting on the bus to go to a cheaper store.
But it's not worth the time, hassle and hard to save $6 (on groceries) on one trip.
$3 I could probably do it.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Same here. I would pay a "local fare" for quick jumps a handful of blocks away but there's no way I'm paying $6 to get to a place I can walk to in 10 or 15 minutes.
I even walk to the Eaton Centre from King and Spadina (20 min) a few times a week. I would not mind paying $1.50 each way or $3 return to take a short streetcar ride. But I'm not paying the same $6 bucks someone riding a bus, RT, subway and streetcar from deep in Scarborough would pay.
Like you, I'd shop more in Chinatown for my groceries if I could hop on the 510 for a quick ride there and back. I'd save on groceries but not enough to justify the $6 return fare. Instead, I go to the Shoppers and grocery stores close by.
With the implementation of PRESTO, the TTC now has the tools to do this. It'll be a terrible waste if they go through all this trouble to adopt a smart fare card but don't implement fares by distance or by time.
books
Active Member
It would be a good idea but I can just hear the petty bickering about how some people in the GTA would get "a better deal" than other people. Denizens of the GTA don't think in terms of what's good for the city as a whole, just what's best for their little neighbourhood. Nice idea though.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Local fares work wherever you are. If you're in North York and just need to take a bus a few blocks, you also only pay $1.50. Timed transfers work even better I think. You could pay $3 to take Line 1 a few stops from Downsview to Yorkdale to grab an item at a speciality store then return home within a 2 hour window and not pay an additional fare. On the other hand, as a downtowner if I'm leaving King and Spadina to go to Yorkdale (+/- 45 minutes one way), I'm not going to have the time to get there, do my shopping and exit the station downtown again with a valid transfer. So unlike the North Yorker, I'd have to pay $3 each way. Local fares/timed transfers doesn't benefit downtown any more than one living downtown already benefits.
Besides bringing on new transit riders who normally don't use the TTC, it's a city building policy because it promotes local business and tighter local communities.
books
Active Member
I think it would be a great idea too, I'm in agreement with you. But what I've noticed about people in the GTA is that they are hyperlocal. They don't seem to want to pay for anything that they themselves don't use and they have no vision of the city as a society. Maybe this is a negative spin off of decades of neo-liberal economics and the idea that it's every man for himself. It's sad but that seems to be the sort of age we live in. Thirty, forty, fifty years ago planning was done on a larger scale with the intent of benefiting society as a whole. Now it's all just a bunch of NIMBYs who want the best deal for themselves and don't care about anyone else. "Pay a toll on the DVP to help public transit in Toronto? Why should I? I don't use public transit!!!" I have actually spoken with people who view public planning as a form of "socialism". So, yes, I really like the idea of local fares but good luck selling it to a public full of NIMBYs.
Megaton327
Senior Member
I generally agree with you but I don't believe the 2-hour timed transfer is something that would garner significant attention from that crowd. It has a fairly small budgetary impact at ~$20M, the TTC wastes loads more taxpayer money e.g. Scarborough Subway for far less passenger benefit on a regular basis.